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 Post subject: Random Music Debate
PostPosted: Mon 02-06-2006 12:00AM 
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So, my father posed a question recently that I couldn't answer: Why is it that people of this generation seem more apt to listen to "classics" (i.e. Led Zeppelin, Doors, etc.) than any other generation? He said no one at his school would have bothered listening to Buddy Holly, etc, yet today it's not uncommon at all to see someone our age wearing Pink Floyd attire. Just a thought. Discuss.


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PostPosted: Mon 02-06-2006 12:13AM 
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bc that music is awesome?

</sarcasm>

well, i think that our generation, in general, is less rebellious than our parents, so that removes much of the stigma attached to it. also, the tempos didnt have the drastic change like from the 40's -> 60's. thirdly, and related to the second, the electric guitar still remains the dominint lead piece, so theres really not a ton of change that COULD happen, thusly, similar types of music, so one can like both. I, personally, would rather to listen to classic rock than modern rock if i had to pick one, but i like both to a greater or lesser extent.

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PostPosted: Mon 02-06-2006 2:58AM 
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True, but consider the direction music is taking today. There are really two "camps," for lack of a better word, in pop music today: Rock and rap (extreme generalizing, don't flame, just go with the analogy), whereas in other generations of music the competing music style provided as the alternative to rock (70's disco, 80's shit, etc.) died out quickly as nothing more than fads. The rock niche still exists, and as such listeners generally appreciates the history of the genre. My take on the situation is that rock still exists, in some form or another. Big band wasn't necessarily prevalent during our parent's era, and as such, the classics of that music were also necessarily not as well received.

Now, the real question is, in 20 years, is rap still going to be mainstream? If it is, will this generation's rap command the respect of "classics" that rock people see in 60's and 70's rock?


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PostPosted: Mon 02-06-2006 9:22AM 
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You know, I actually cringed when you referred to the possibility of rap becoming a "classic" of any sort.

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PostPosted: Mon 02-06-2006 9:40AM 
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Sczroer wrote:
You know, I actually cringed when you referred to the possibility of rap becoming a "classic" of any sort.


I know, I know. But the possibility had to be discussed.


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PostPosted: Mon 02-06-2006 10:51AM 
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Sczroer wrote:
You know, I actually cringed when you referred to the possibility of rap becoming a "classic" of any sort.


I actually cringed at your close-mindedness and obvious naivete and complete ignorance. You shouldn't even be commenting on a subject that you apparently have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

Edit: Oh, and there already are rap classics, so both of you can shove it up your ass.

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PostPosted: Mon 02-06-2006 11:08AM 
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ben laden wrote:
Sczroer wrote:
You know, I actually cringed when you referred to the possibility of rap becoming a "classic" of any sort.


I actually cringed at your close-mindedness and obvious naivete and complete ignorance. You shouldn't even be commenting on a subject that you apparently have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

Edit: Oh, and there already are rap classics, so both of you can shove it up your ass.


damn son. i agree with you partly, but this is to get peoples opinions and thoughts on the matter, if you know so much (which i dont doubt you do) share with us and cure our complete ignorance

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PostPosted: Mon 02-06-2006 12:54PM 
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LostBoyz wrote:
ben laden wrote:
Sczroer wrote:
You know, I actually cringed when you referred to the possibility of rap becoming a "classic" of any sort.


I actually cringed at your close-mindedness and obvious naivete and complete ignorance. You shouldn't even be commenting on a subject that you apparently have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

Edit: Oh, and there already are rap classics, so both of you can shove it up your ass.


damn son. i agree with you partly, but this is to get peoples opinions and thoughts on the matter, if you know so much (which i dont doubt you do) share with us and cure our complete ignorance


What is there to cure? They obviously shoved off an entire genre of music because it's not their cup of tea. The genre happens to be one that has a wealth of "classics" and amazing songs. I'm not even an extremely big rap fan and I know this.


Outkast - The Love Below: This is an amazing concept album that skillfully blends rap, hip-hop, pop, and even some rock tinges.

ANYTHING by 2Pac (or Tupac or Makaveli or whatever you know him by)

Sage Francis: The lesser known, but arguably better, white rapper has tons of songs that should be in people's playlists. Check out Crack Pipes, Personal Journalist, Makeshift Patriot (an amazing critique of America and it's media post-9/11), Sea Lion, Escape Artist, and Slow Down Gandhi. He is flat-out one of the best lyricists in ANY music genre, and his flow is damn incredible at times as well.

Saul Williams: Formerly a slam-poet, and his unique style definitely shows it. Check out Untimely Meditations, Om Nia American, List of Demands, and Wine.

Eminem: The man's influence on our culture and on rap itself can't be denied. Pay attention to his lyrics and his flow to understand why he's had such staying power.

Kanye West: There's a reason all the music critics have jerked off all over BOTH of his albums. He makes incredibly listenable albums, and they're very diverse and showcases his talent not only for rhymes but for incorporating all types of genres into his rap.

Ludacris: This guy flows better than about everyone. His rhymes are awesome too. Check out Rollout, Southern Fried Intro, and Eyebrows Down.


And I'm not even a huge rap fan, this is just what I have that amazes me.

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PostPosted: Mon 02-06-2006 12:55PM 
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No, ben is trying to keep all the knowledge for himself. That way he can just sit there and call people ignorant because they don't know anything.

But before this turns into a flame war... I cringe at the thought of rap having classics too.

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PostPosted: Mon 02-06-2006 2:04PM 
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Sutherlands wrote:
No, ben is trying to keep all the knowledge for himself. That way he can just sit there and call people ignorant because they don't know anything.

But before this turns into a flame war... I cringe at the thought of rap having classics too.


Crap, guys, back on topic. Rap was a very progressive style of music in its early days. But, like most styles of music, rock included, I believe its in a dark spot, where creativity is kind of stymied right now. But, that's neither here nor there. Does rock only have followers of its "classics" because the genre has been around for longer than most, or is it simply for the fact that the music created then was better?


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PostPosted: Mon 02-06-2006 2:24PM 
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kjk437 wrote:
Crap, guys, back on topic. Rap was a very progressive style of music in its early days. But, like most styles of music, rock included, I believe its in a dark spot, where creativity is kind of stymied right now. But, that's neither here nor there. Does rock only have followers of its "classics" because the genre has been around for longer than most, or is it simply for the fact that the music created then was better?


To reply with more questions rather than answers, I've always wondered why there's so little music released today that sounds anything like the music released in the late 60s and 70s. I say this because I consider myself a classic rock fan above any other genre. I like a lot of "alternative rock" from the past 10-15 years but very little of it distinctly reminds me of the classic 70s rock. To possibly illustrate my point, I'll list a few of my favorite bands (definiely not all) from the 70s and some of my favorite "modern" bands.

Classick Rock:
Bob Seger
Boston
CCR
ELO
Led Zeppelin
Rush
Tom Petty
Van Halen (meh...sorta classic rock I suppose)

Alternative Rock:
Barenaked Ladies (I may be reaching here...)
Better Than Ezra
Eve 6
Flogging Molly
Jimmy Eat World
Lit
Our Lady Peace
Shades Apart
Weezer

When I look at that list, I don't see a single modern band that closely resembles a classic rock band. Like I said, I'm not answering any questions, more like asking more questions, but it's interesting nonetheless. My interests do generally gravitate toward the bands who have relevant, impactful lyrics AND can play their instruments. I can't be sure because I haven't checked, but I believe every band on that quick list writes a vast majority of their own songs.

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PostPosted: Mon 02-06-2006 4:20PM 
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I think this is very normal.. if you look at what the beatles, the who, rolling stones, doors, lynryd skynryd, zeppelin listened to it's about 40 years behind them... which just so happens to be what the classics are behind us...

they were heavily influenced by big jazz and blues artists such as Muddy Waters and Howlin Wolf just to name a couple.. which is why The Who have a shirt that has "Maximum R & B" on it.. the saying that rock came from blues and jazz.. check out the wiki on Muddy Waters if you don't believe the influence that they've had..

So basically what I'm saying is that the older music is a building block for the new stuff.. Music is very evolutionary... I also think that it is cyclic.. Disco was not the greatest in terms of creativity and such.. Rap, while fun to listen to is comparable to disco in my opinion.. NOW, i'm not saying that Rap is bad and can't have it's classics, but to me it's more of a new type of poetry to music and less pure music.. I've played the cello for 8 years and to call something that is totally mixed and created on a computer classic music is a stretch.. it's just string beats and stuff together, it requires a lot less proficiency in the genre..

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PostPosted: Mon 02-06-2006 4:32PM 
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The problem is that you're not thinking of a computer as just another tool to make music, which it is. It's just as much an instrument as your cello. Does it make as good of music? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Does it take as much technical profiency to play? Almost always no.
But then you have to also look at what classifies rap as good. Rap has always been about the lyricism and delivery. The beat behind it, while it can be very interesting and fun to listen to, is also not as important. What distinguishes rap greats has always been their lyrics and how they deliver them and not what rocks your subwoofer the most.

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PostPosted: Mon 02-06-2006 4:37PM 
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even if you dont appreciate digital beats go check out some roots, mos def, or jurassic 5. rap/hip hop groups have instruments too (sometimes accompanied by DJ)

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PostPosted: Mon 02-06-2006 4:45PM 
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techno is the digital beats that I don't appreciate.. and I never said that I didn't like rap.. I just don't think that I'll ever tote it as a classic producing genre.. but, there tend to be exceptions to every rule.. I do like Kanye, Jay-Z, Andre 3000, and the less popular B.E.P. stuff...

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