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 Post subject: C&C MO law
PostPosted: Thu 04-16-2009 3:35PM 
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http://www.komu.com/satellite/Satellite ... e2a2c54730

Thoughts? 23 to 21 for C&C permit and allowing them on college campuses.

I'm in favor.


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 Post subject: Re: C&C MO law
PostPosted: Thu 04-16-2009 4:17PM 
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 Post subject: Re: C&C MO law
PostPosted: Thu 04-16-2009 4:20PM 
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I'm in favor, tell me one case where a C&C user was a bad thing in MO.


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 Post subject: Re: C&C MO law
PostPosted: Thu 04-16-2009 8:07PM 
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+1 in favor


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 Post subject: Re: C&C MO law
PostPosted: Thu 04-16-2009 10:29PM 
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If any of your are interested in going to Jeff City to testify in support of this bill when it enters the senate, let me know. It isn't on the calendar yet, but should be coming up for a hearing in the next few weeks. If you don't want to speak, you are also welcome to come along just to show your support.

For those that don't know all the facts, I'll explain line by line.

Quote:
"It's not appropriate," said MUPD Police Chief Jack Watring.


Says the chief as he freely carries a gun on campus. It would be nice if he happened to be standing there when something bad happened, but chances are he probably won't be. He already has permission and doesn't see the need to change the law because it doesn't help him. He likes the status quo because he has power.

Quote:
"Our personal approach is if you look at the training issue, conceal and carry folks are required a one eight-hour training session. That's not to say they can't shoot well but again it's an eight-hour session. Our officers are required twenty four hours each year."


The eight hour training session not only covers handling of firearms but also pertinent laws and yes, you can easily cover everything in that time. Cops need to go through extra training because they have to chase criminals, make arrests by the books, learn how to drive at high speeds, and catch the bad guys. Civilians don't go chasing after criminals and don't need to know what a terry stop is. They just need to know to avoid bad situations but if you get stuck in one, do everything you can to stay alive. Most departments only require officers to every six months. Civilians can easily and most do get in at least as much range time as required as their local police.

Quote:
Watring says the change could cause confusions among officers. "If two people are shooting, how are we supposed to know who the good guy is and who the bad guy is?" said Watring.


Most gunfights last something on the order of seconds, hence survivors saying stuff like, "It all happened so fast." Very few times do cops show up while bad things are still happened and by the time they do, the bad guy is usually pretty easy to pick out. Even if the cops accidentally shoot a good guy, his alternative was to wait there and get shot by the bad guy, so we're no worse off than before. At least changing the rules would give the good guy a better chance and that's the best we can do. Change the odds.

Quote:
Rep. Chris Kelly, D-Columbia, worries the firearms could get out of hand.

"College boys love things that go boom," Kelly said. "What we don't need is beer and college boys and firearms."


I always love getting stereotyped. Of course drinking and carrying a firearm is against the law and will still be against the law even if this bill is passed. Drinking is allowed off campus right now and carrying a firearm is allowed off campus right now, yet I don't see too many people doing both at one time. Drinking is now and will probably remain verboten on campus and yet he makes the leap that allowing firearms on campus will somehow encourage drinking on campus. Of course, since I'm a drunken fool, I guess I should also turn in my driver's license since cars make loud noises too.

Quote:
The conceal and carry on campus is an addition to an amendment that would change the age for a conceal and carry permit from 23 to 21. The bill needs to pass one more time in the House with the recent revisions before it can move to the Senate.


Missouri is the only state in the US where the age is 23 instead of 21. All the other states haven't had any problem with it at all with it and neither should we.

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 Post subject: Re: C&C MO law
PostPosted: Fri 04-17-2009 2:17AM 
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Very well put. I hadn't thought of some of the arguments you brought up although I had my own arguments against the article. There was another, even worse, one that I decided not to post.

Either way, I'm 22 and I'd just like to be able to freely carry my gun.


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 Post subject: Re: C&C MO law
PostPosted: Fri 04-17-2009 7:48AM 
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Also +1 for support. People would think twice before going on a shooting spree if they thought 10 people would start shooting back.

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 Post subject: Re: C&C MO law
PostPosted: Sat 04-18-2009 1:36PM 
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Those of you wanting your CCW permit, look at the state of Florida. Their registration is open to people aged 21 or older who are residents of any state, and it allows you to carry in any state which shares CCW registration reciprocity with the state of Florida (and Missouri is one of those states). The registration is cheaper, lasts 5 years, and isn't tied to your DOR/DMV record like it would be in Missouri (so you don't have to renew your 6-year driver's license every three years).

This is a good option for anyone who's under 23 and would otherwise be unable to be permitted as a CCW in Missouri, or for anyone who doesn't want a 5-minute traffic stop automatically turned into a 45-minute or better stop every time you get pulled over***.


***IANAL, YMMV, etc. I cannot confirm the legality of withholding information about the presence of a firearm to a police officer during a traffic stop--but I'm pretty sure it ain't.

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 Post subject: Re: C&C MO law
PostPosted: Sat 04-18-2009 2:32PM 
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bagvwf wrote:
***IANAL, YMMV, etc. I cannot confirm the legality of withholding information about the presence of a firearm to a police officer during a traffic stop--but I'm pretty sure it ain't.

You're supposed to alert the officer that there is a firearm in the vehicle, which is why they sometimes ask. Especially if it is kept where your insurance is kept, be sure to alert them first. It is also legal for them to retain it until you can prove ownership which is why I always carry my receipt with me*.

* Not too sure if this is accurate as the source may be a tad unreliable.


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 Post subject: Re: C&C MO law
PostPosted: Sun 04-19-2009 6:45PM 
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bagvwf wrote:
***IANAL, YMMV, etc. I cannot confirm the legality of withholding information about the presence of a firearm to a police officer during a traffic stop--but I'm pretty sure it ain't.


In MO you are not required to disclose that you have a firearm in the vehicle but you are never allowed to lie. If you get pulled over you don't have to scream "I have a gun in the car" the second he walks up. That will usually prolong things and keeping it out of the conversation can be good idea depending on what type of cop you are dealing with. On the other hand, if he directly asks you if you have a firearm in the car, clearly state "yes, sir" and don't fuck around and be vague. Some cops go on a power trip if you mention it thinking that all gun carrying citizens are bad, yet some cops will respect you for caring about your own safety, knowing that they won't have to save your helpless ass in the future. That's why disclosing up front is always a gamble. In other states such as UT and TN, you have to disclose up front according to law. If you have to reach for an area to grab something like insurance next to a firearm, always disclose first no matter what. I find that not mentioning it during a regular traffic stop works. We just talk about the traffic stop. If asked to step out of the car, then I mention it (you're getting frisked anyway so he's going to find it). Cops always assume that everyone always has a gun anyway so mentioning it doesn't change anything if they are following their training.

berto wrote:
You're supposed to alert the officer that there is a firearm in the vehicle, which is why they sometimes ask. Especially if it is kept where your insurance is kept, be sure to alert them first. It is also legal for them to retain it until you can prove ownership which is why I always carry my receipt with me*.

* Not too sure if this is accurate as the source may be a tad unreliable.


As I said, in MO you don't have to alert the officer. In some other states you do. As far as retaining ownership, I'd have to double check but I'm pretty sure it's somewhat bullshit. You don't have to prove that it's yours. When they catch you with illegal drugs do they ever assume that it isn't yours until you prove it? Nope, so why should they with firearms? Possession is 9/10's of the law and the mere fact of you possessing it is enough in most courts to prove that it is yours. If they take your firearm and check it and give it back after 5 minutes if it is yours, then I don't have a problem with it. If they keep you for 1 hour to verify it is yours, they're just doing it to piss you off and harass you. Hazelwood police would routinely do this and they even kept it down at the station until you could prove ownership. If I recall correctly, they got bitch slapped by the attorney general for overstepping their bounds since it is clearly unreasonable to have to prove that you own everything in your car for a simple traffic stop for speeding. If you are stopped for suspicion of stealing, I could see that, but not every time. Either way, you don't have to carry your receipt with you.

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 Post subject: Re: C&C MO law
PostPosted: Sun 04-19-2009 9:16PM 
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Informing an officer is not a requirement in Missouri. I was pulled over while carrying (the only time I've ever been pulled over) and I did not inform the officer. When he ran my driver's license, he saw that I had a CCW endorsement and asked me if I was armed when he came back to the car. I hadn't thought to mention it, because I always have it on me (except when against the law - like on campus).

He said they prefer you to inform them, but it wasn't a big deal.

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 Post subject: Re: C&C MO law
PostPosted: Mon 04-20-2009 3:15PM 
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Never thought some of you hardcore leftists would be pro gun


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 Post subject: Re: C&C MO law
PostPosted: Mon 04-20-2009 3:20PM 
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Goran wrote:
Never thought some of you hardcore leftists would be pro gun



Never thought some of you hardcore rightists would be so pro fascist.

Maybe we're not leftist, maybe we're pro liberty? Government shouldn't tell me wtf to do unless I'm jeopardizing someone else.

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 Post subject: Re: C&C MO law
PostPosted: Mon 04-20-2009 4:38PM 
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I'm not leftist or rightist or w/e the fuck you want you call it. I am whatever I feel like doing at the time. I make my decisions on how I feel about that single issue, not how my 'party' would feel about it.

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 Post subject: Re: C&C MO law
PostPosted: Mon 04-20-2009 4:43PM 
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Kingkoopa wrote:
I'm not leftist or rightist or w/e the fuck you want you call it. I am whatever I feel like doing at the time. I make my decisions on how I feel about that single issue, not how my 'party' would feel about it.


Give this man a gun. He is his law


edit: (fyi this was totally a joke and not meant to contribute to the conversation at all, I've just been watching a lot of westerns)

edit2: But actually now that I think of it, probably is my only concern with concealed carry. Maybe too many westerns?


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