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 Post subject: Time Warner vs. At&t DSL
PostPosted: Sat 06-20-2009 4:40PM 
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I am going to be living in non U-Verse part of Kansas City, MO.

I have options of Time Warner and AT&T DSL (not U-verse dsl). Anyone have experience with these companies?


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 Post subject: Re: Time Warner vs. At&t DSL
PostPosted: Sat 06-20-2009 5:25PM 
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Isn't Time Warner Cable the one doing the 40GB/month max? And it seems like every cable network I've ever been on slows down from 4pm to about midnight.

Before getting U-Verse I had vanilla ATT DSL (SBC then but whatever. SBC bought out ATT). My parents only paid for the lowest package (which I think was 1.5ish at the time) but we always got our rated speeds, and had decent ping times.

Who do you have as your cellphone service provider? You could get a discount with ATT if you have ATT. See if Time Warner has a wireless partner you could ask for a discount with. Also - what are you doing for TV (if you're doing TV at all)? Time warner would probably give you a TV discount. I think ATT has a dish partner if you're not doing U-Verse. Also - you should ask if/when U-verse will be available (it's a great service).

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 Post subject: Re: Time Warner vs. At&t DSL
PostPosted: Sat 06-20-2009 8:57PM 
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amd, they won't tell you when U-Verse will be available for competitive reasons. Hell, I work for AT&T and they wouldn't tell me, few in the company know and they keep it a closely guarded secret. I didn't know I could get it until I checked for myself online one day.

AT&T does partner with DirecTV, so if you have wireless from AT&T and go with them for DSL and get DTV, you get a bundle discount.


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 Post subject: Re: Time Warner vs. At&t DSL
PostPosted: Sat 06-20-2009 9:20PM 
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My dad got an email when it was available. Now the vanilla DSL part of ATT probably won't tell you when it's available. But if you contact U-Verse and inquire as to when it should be available - I'm sure they'll tell you. The guy who installed our home was very open about plans for U-verse in our area.

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 Post subject: Re: Time Warner vs. At&t DSL
PostPosted: Sat 06-20-2009 10:39PM 
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amd2800barton wrote:
My dad got an email when it was available. Now the vanilla DSL part of ATT probably won't tell you when it's available. But if you contact U-Verse and inquire as to when it should be available - I'm sure they'll tell you. The guy who installed our home was very open about plans for U-verse in our area.


Once it's available they will tell you of course, but if you're expecting them to say "It's not available right now but it will be on [insert date here]" you won't get that out of them. If the installer said something, he probably shouldn't have. Future rollout plans are on a need-to-know basis, but considering how poorly contract negotiations between the CWA union and AT&T are going as of late, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of installers who do know are opening their mouths to try to piss off AT&T. Since us non-union employees have to fill in to replace the union guys if they go on strike, we've been keeping an eye on negotiations, and when I read about the union's tactics, it becomes quite clear that they're not the brightest crayons in the box and probably think that leaking confidential information will help get them what they want. The people working in the call centers couldn't tell you even if they wanted to though, they don't have access to rollout plans. I've worked with the U-Verse ordering system call center reps use and you input an address to start the order and it just tells you if it's available or not, it doesn't give any estimated dates.

Now, U-Verse rollout plans for cities are a bit more public since AT&T has to get the necessary government permits and approvals, and that is all public record. It's the plans for specific subdivisions and streets that AT&T tries to keep private. Like, it may become known that AT&T is rolling out U-Verse in Kansas City, but specific areas of KC won't be made public until U-Verse is actually switched on there.


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 Post subject: Re: Time Warner vs. At&t DSL
PostPosted: Sun 06-21-2009 1:27PM 
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While helpful.... really am just wondering how AT&T's 3 meg compares to time warner's quality and reliability. Time Warner says they offer a 15 meg, but I'm thinking since it's cable that probably not worth paying for.

Also, what is this turbo boost thing. Is it compression software that they will make me install and pay extra use?


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 Post subject: Re: Time Warner vs. At&t DSL
PostPosted: Sun 06-21-2009 10:18PM 
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FrankieM wrote:
While helpful.... really am just wondering how AT&T's 3 meg compares to time warner's quality and reliability. Time Warner says they offer a 15 meg, but I'm thinking since it's cable that probably not worth paying for.

Also, what is this turbo boost thing. Is it compression software that they will make me install and pay extra use?

Time Warner is the best internet service I've ever had in the midwest. I've never had a problem with slow down or anything unless I was using usenet on their own servers (which used to be as good as premium servers, but they've since contracted them out and they're crap now). I don't know about the turbo boost, but I think it's free and it's not a software you install, just something in the modem or something, I'm not super sure about it don't think it makes that much difference.

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 Post subject: Re: Time Warner vs. At&t DSL
PostPosted: Tue 06-23-2009 12:40AM 
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In my past 2-1/2 year experience, Ma Bell is merely okay as a service provider. I'm subscribed for their top tier residential DSL copper plan in my area, called "Elite" (6Mbps down, 768Kbps up). This, plus basic metered phone, works out to around $55/month. U-Verse is available in my area, but I refuse to switch over. Copper stays energized when half the city is without power after an ice storm (ATT's backup generators do the grunt work). This has happened twice, once every winter so far.

The Good:
- Service is usually solid. I'm about 1000 feet from the DSLAM, so my signal is amazing. According to the tech, without the 6Mbps limiter I would be getting 7.5 out of 8 Mbps, and that's with a ton of splices between the house entry point and the modem. My logs say the last IP address cycle was at the end of May, which coincides with a firewall reboot.

- Customer service is okay if you can make it through the long call times. Customer service is open late, and they even speak English! Tech visits are free if you can prove that the problem is on their end (at or beyond the network junction) or their equipment (the modem).

- Signing on for "Pro" or "Elite" service includes a free wifi deal with McDonald's, Barnes and Noble, and a few other places. This makes trips around the rural parts of the country more survivable, as well as locally during the aforementioned ice storms.

- Whereas cable companies seem to have a twig up their collective asses about residential customers running servers, ATT doesn't seem to care. This was one thing I specifically asked about before sign-up, and was told upfront that servers were fine (modulo all the typical T&Cs). The only thing blocked by default is port 25, and there's an automated form online you can submit to have that lifted.

- News on the the company working with the RIAA kind of flip-flops. Sometimes you'll hear that they tell the RIAA to get bent, other times you'll hear that they're working as a proxy. Either way, they don't seem to immediately roll over and throw you to the lawyersharks.

- No lame DNS fallback bullshit. Lots of ATT-owned servers (high-stratum NTP, DNS). Excellent peering with other US ISPs and the world.


The Bad:
- I take issue with the domestic spying they do for the government, and the associated retroactive immunity they were granted. I had looked into alternate providers in my area, but they all trunk back to ATT. Figures. Might as well go with the devil you know. :|

- About once a year I have a DSL modem die on me. The last tech said that they 'wear out' but I'm not convinced. I keep my equipment well-ventilated, so heat-death due to end-user neglect or abuse is unlikely.

- Service gets spotty once a year. I've heard theories such as moisture on exposed wiring, bugs making nests on the wiring, thermal expansion, and (my favorite) the petroleum sheathing melting off causing infrequent contact. May be related to "killing the modem" noted above. During this time, I usually cycle IP addresses four or five times a day, usually in the 10pm-4am timeframe. Tech support always swears there's no maintenance happening in my area.

- PPPoE sucks. (OpenBSD's pppd makes it not suck as much.) No native IPv6. ATT just recently retired all of their Usenet servers.


The Ugly:
- Orange. From the Cingular buyout. Seriously? Just stop.


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 Post subject: Re: Time Warner vs. At&t DSL
PostPosted: Tue 06-23-2009 3:31AM 
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Castorite wrote:
The Ugly:
- Orange. From the Cingular buyout. Seriously? Just stop.

Lol - but i have to say that the cingular wasn't bought out. It was co-owned by SBC (which bought out AT&T and then took the more widely known name) and Bell-South. It was a 60-40 split with SBC having ownership of the larger portion. When SBC/AT&T bought out Bell South they took ownership of all of Cingular and decided to make everything 1 brand.

Just thought you should know that AT&T today is basically the baby-bell Southwestern Bell from about 15 years ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Time Warner vs. At&t DSL
PostPosted: Tue 06-23-2009 4:52PM 
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Castorite wrote:
In my past 2-1/2 year experience, Ma Bell is merely okay as a service provider. I'm subscribed for their top tier residential DSL copper plan in my area, called "Elite" (6Mbps down, 768Kbps up). This, plus basic metered phone, works out to around $55/month. U-Verse is available in my area, but I refuse to switch over. Copper stays energized when half the city is without power after an ice storm (ATT's backup generators do the grunt work). This has happened twice, once every winter so far.


FWIW, you can get U-Verse without the VoIP and keep your regular POTS phone that remains up when the city is without power. That's what I have....U-Verse for TV and internet and regular old fashioned landline for the phone.


amd2800barton wrote:
Castorite wrote:
The Ugly:
- Orange. From the Cingular buyout. Seriously? Just stop.

Lol - but i have to say that the cingular wasn't bought out. It was co-owned by SBC (which bought out AT&T and then took the more widely known name) and Bell-South. It was a 60-40 split with SBC having ownership of the larger portion. When SBC/AT&T bought out Bell South they took ownership of all of Cingular and decided to make everything 1 brand.

Just thought you should know that AT&T today is basically the baby-bell Southwestern Bell from about 15 years ago.


Everything you need to know about the history of AT&T explained by Stephen Colbert: http://jdwusami.vox.com/library/post/co ... f-att.html


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 Post subject: Re: Time Warner vs. At&t DSL
PostPosted: Mon 07-06-2009 9:56PM 
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I'll chime in and say that I had a miserable 2 years with Time Warner. I live in Merriam, one of the Kansas side suburbs of KC. The first two months were fine, but after that, particularly in the non-frozen months, trying to do anything on the internet from 4-10pm (and sometimes from 10am-12am) was about as fun as having a colonoscopy. My modem was resetting a minimum of every 5 minutes from loss of signal. In the winter the problem kind of went away, but as soon as it was regularly above 60 degrees it sucked. My sister lives with me; she had to job hunt last year from free wifi hotspots because the internet sucked so bad at my house. A few weeks ago her boyfriend was in town for business, but had left a laptop with an important presentation at an earlier stop in Topeka. He had to go to the library to try and Google somebody to let him in the next morning to retrieve it because my internet was worthless. I started dating a girl back in April and she wanted to come along on a Vegas trip I was planning with my friends. We just barely made it through Southwest's ticket buying webapp between the resets and the shitty DNS resolution times. Forget about playing stuff on XBox Live. In the last month that I had them my cable TV service started wigging out; 2 episodes (including the season finale) of How I Met Your Mother were totally garbled. They're lucky 24 never got messed up; I probably would have set fire to their office.

I had at least 10, if not 20, service appointments over those 20 or so months. They replaced and re-buried the coax from the pedastal to my house. They "boosted the signal". They "clipped some tabs that could cause shorts". They replaced splitters. They removed and replaced the connectors on the ends of the coax. And sometimes it just wouldn't act up for them, so there wasn't anything they could do. The final straw was when phone support promised me a "senior tech" who would replace the coax from the junction box to my DVR/modem, but the only thing he actually did was "clipping those tabs" at the pedastal. Oh, and there was the phone tech guy who was convinced I had a virus. Yeah, 1 XP machine, 3 Macs, and 2 Linux boxes, all unable to get to the internet; I bet that was definitely a virus :roll: .

Surewest (formerly Everest) finally made it to my neighborhood this spring; I dumped Time Warner about a month ago. When I told the Surewest installer guy about why I ejected TW, he said "I'm not surprised, I'd bet the 3 barrel connectors from the junction box to your set and modem was the problem". I told him that it was TW's loss; they'd had plenty of chances to fix it.

My family and friends make it our purpose in life to try and break companies that provide us with terrible service. My dad has dissuaded a dozen or so people from taking Amtrak (he says he'd "rather have AIDS" than take another Amtrak train) and my sister's boyfriend takes credit for sending Eddie Bauer into bankruptcy after they refused to honor a "lifetime guarantee" on a backpack he bought 10 years ago. So if I can keep someone from signing up with Time Warner, I can continue the tradition.


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 Post subject: Re: Time Warner vs. At&t DSL
PostPosted: Mon 07-06-2009 11:15PM 
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My girlfriend in St. Louis has ATT and while the service has been consistent the router (2wire 2701HG something or other) is ultimate shit. If you even try to do anything moderately stressful on the router it'll drop the internet and reboot. She's calling them this week to get them to replace it.

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