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 Post subject: PSA: Summer Objectivism Club Meeting
PostPosted: Tue 06-22-2004 9:43PM 
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Source: Delta Tau Delta
The UMR Objectivism club is having a meeting Thursday (6/24/2004). We will meeting at 6:00pm in the EE Commons Area then go to Alex’s Pizza for dinner and discussion.

What is the Objectivism club? Well the objectivism club is made up of free-thinking UMR students who support laissez-faire capitalism and the idea that reason is man’s only means of perceiving reality/his only source of knowledge. The objectivism club is not about bashing religion or theist but instead is a social discussion group that supports no higher power than one’s self. It is sort of the opposite of socialism.

Anyways if you’ve read Ayn Rand (maybe Atlas Shrugged, The Fountainhead, or Anthem), are interesting in joining an intellectual social group or are just curious about Objectivism then come to dinner with us this Thursday. If interested shoot me an AOL IM @ Skyhoper, e-mail me or just show up on Thursday.

Please direct any criticism/prejudice to me privately. I would rather not have this thread turn into a religion bashing thread or another flame war.

http://www.aynrand.org/objectivism/io.html


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PostPosted: Tue 06-22-2004 10:50PM 
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Wouldn't creating a club of free thinkers just encourage you to create a new box to think inside of? :?


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PostPosted: Tue 06-22-2004 11:13PM 
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Patrick wrote:
Wouldn't creating a club of free thinkers just encourage you to create a new box to think inside of?


I see your assumption but it’s more along the lines of active thinking. I meant free-thinking in the sense that you are free to think for yourself and your ability to reason is your greatest asset. Instead of being tied down to indoctrination, various dogmas or random intuitions and feelings. One of the main purposes of the club is to look at and discuss current events and philosophies objectively.


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PostPosted: Tue 06-22-2004 11:36PM 


Source: Somewhere
You know what sucks about free thinking? You're not actually allowed to think anything.

What I mean is, the objectivism club is an exercise in how many different ideas one can think for very short amounts of time. It's not a search, because if you ever found an idea actually worth thinking or a doctrine worth believing, believing it would make you closed minded.

That's the flaw in objectivity. It's not closed-minded to hold firm beliefs. It's closed-minded to take somebody else's beliefs up the ass without exploring other possibilities first.

But to be your definition of objective, I'm never allowed to believe anything. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Wed 06-23-2004 12:18AM 
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Everyone has principles that they developed from personal observations and experiences. You integrate your principles into a “Philosophy.” Objectivism is a philosophy that bases its principles and values on reason and self-interest. I’m sorry if my previous comment was poorly written. I purposely avoided using clichés like open and closed minded. I can play semantics with you later but now it's time for me to go bed.


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PostPosted: Wed 06-23-2004 4:01PM 


Source: Somewhere
"Oh YEAHH!"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu 06-24-2004 6:28AM 


Source: Somewhere
It might just be me, but I thought Atlas Shrugged was actually an
excellent proof of why Rand's philosophy doesn't really work that well.
(It only works well if amongst its adherents)

P.S. Did anyone actually read all of Galt's monologue thingy?
It's not like we didn't get the idea from the previous 700 pages...


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PostPosted: Thu 06-24-2004 11:18AM 
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Anonymous wrote:
It might just be me, but I thought Atlas Shrugged was actually an
excellent proof of why Rand's philosophy doesn't really work that well.
(It only works well if amongst its adherents)

P.S. Did anyone actually read all of Galt's monologue thingy?
It's not like we didn't get the idea from the previous 700 pages...


Please clarify your point. I think by skimming the book you missed many of the key points in the novel. Atlas Shrugged, which is 1100 pages long, is a huge undertaking for most non-avid readers. For me the first 900 pages flew by. Atlas Shrugged encompasses so much and gives perspectives on a diverse group of topics. For a lighter storyline I would recommend reading The Fountainhead.

On your other point, at first I thought as well that Galt’s speech over emphasized that ideas presented in the beginning of the novel but after rereading it found it essential to the novel. Galt’s speech is significant to the novel and I wouldn’t advise skipping it.

For those who haven’t read Atlas Shrugged I would recommend it as a piece of classic literature and as a profound example of the ideas of Objectivism.

College students can receive a brand new copy of Atlas Shrugged through the Ayn Rand Institute for 2 dollars shipping and handling with a copy of your student id. I have forms if anyone is interested.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies ... rand_x.htm
(Notice the side note survey that listed Atlas Shrugged as the most influential book next to the bible.)

http://gos.sbc.edu/r/rand.html
(Ayn Rand’s 1974 Address to the Graduating Class of West Point Academy)


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PostPosted: Thu 06-24-2004 12:11PM 


Source: Somewhere
Skyhoper wrote:
College students can receive a brand new copy of Atlas Shrugged through the Ayn Rand Institute for 2 dollars shipping and handling with a copy of your student id. I have forms if anyone is interested.


You're turning into Mormons!

It's a cult! Run away screaming!


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PostPosted: Thu 06-24-2004 1:06PM 
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Anonymous wrote:
Skyhoper wrote:
College students can receive a brand new copy of Atlas Shrugged through the Ayn Rand Institute for 2 dollars shipping and handling with a copy of your student id. I have forms if anyone is interested.


You're turning into Mormons!
It's a cult! Run away screaming!


Reading Atlas Shrugged first is a rather intense way of learning about Objectivism. Atlas Shrugged is only a fiction novel; I’m not claiming that it’s the world of god or “The Truth.” Books have never hurt anyone besides those that have refused to learn how to read them.

You sound like you're afraid of books and knowledge. What was it called when literacy, learning, and philosophy took a huge decline and the world was ruled by feudalism and religious fundamentalism? Oh that’s right; it was called the Dark Ages. Maybe you should attempt to read books that have different viewpoint than yours, ones that go against your fragile little world if that is if your world exists outside of your room.

Although I am an atheist I still enjoy researching different religions. I’ve been to synagogues, many churches, mosques, and I even lived in Israel for two months. I’ve read the Torah and numerous parts of the Bible and Quran. To learn about the advantages of Capitalism and democracy I studied socialism and communism.

Anyways meeting tonight, come and enjoy.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu 06-24-2004 10:22PM 


Source: Somewhere
Skyhoper wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Skyhoper wrote:
College students can receive a brand new copy of Atlas Shrugged through the Ayn Rand Institute for 2 dollars shipping and handling with a copy of your student id. I have forms if anyone is interested.


You're turning into Mormons!
It's a cult! Run away screaming!


Reading Atlas Shrugged first is a rather intense way of learning about Objectivism. Atlas Shrugged is only a fiction novel; I’m not claiming that it’s the word of God or “The Truth.” Books have never hurt anyone besides those that have refused to learn how to read them.

You sound like you're afraid of books and knowledge. What was it called when literacy, learning, and philosophy took a huge decline and the world was ruled by feudalism and religious fundamentalism? Oh that’s right; it was called the Dark Ages. Maybe you should attempt to read books that have different viewpoint than yours, ones that go against your fragile little world if that is if your world exists outside of your room.

Although I am an atheist I still enjoy researching different religions. I’ve been to synagogues, many churches, mosques, and I even lived in Israel for two months. I’ve read the Torah and numerous parts of the Bible and Quran. To learn about the advantages of Capitalism and democracy I studied socialism and communism.

Anyways meeting tonight, come and enjoy.


Wow, I'm impressed. And I'm not saying that sarcastically; I really mean it. Unless you're a prodigious liar, you're probably a person worth meeting and talking to about religion and economics.

Anyway, I'm not afraid of knowledge; it's just that I get annoyed with people who think they're superior because they read Ayn Rand. You're probably not one of them, it seems. By the way, the same goes for people who think they're better because they read Pratchett or Palahniuk. It may be possible that you have superior taste as compared to me, or a superior reading level perhaps, or a superior attention span, but that doesn't make you superior.

Hmm. Another tangent. I apologize.


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PostPosted: Thu 06-24-2004 10:42PM 
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Quote:
Wow, I'm impressed. And I'm not saying that sarcastically; I really mean it. Unless you're a prodigious liar, you're probably a person worth meeting and talking to about religion and economics.


Sure, shoot me an IM, e-mail or meet me on campus one day. It's always good to meet new people, especially those willing to discuss and debate topics a little deeper then random gossip or trivial nonsense. That is greatest regret about being in Rolla is the lack of people I have been able to have profound conversations with. I seem to be more liberal than the normal UMR student although I wouldn’t call myself a liberal. On a side note I think I’m going to write an independent political column for the Miner next semester.

Also I like your use of "prodigious."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu 06-24-2004 11:09PM 


Source: Somewhere
Skyhoper wrote:
On a side note I think I’m going to write an independent political column for the Miner next semester.


Gee, we don't have enough liberal columns already... :roll:

Just kidding. Write away. At least you'll know how to spell and, hopefully, everything will be well-researched.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu 06-24-2004 11:24PM 
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Anonymous wrote:
Skyhoper wrote:
On a side note I think I’m going to write an independent political column for the Miner next semester.


Gee, we don't have enough liberal columns already... :roll:

Just kidding. Write away. At least you'll know how to spell and, hopefully, everything will be well-researched.


I wrote several articles last year. I wrote my articles from a legal constitutional stand point. It wouldn’t really be a liberal column since I dislike both major parties, and no I’m not libertarian. Oh, I think I’ll have the pleasure of writing the horoscopes next year as well. I think I’ll write meaningful ones that people can really try to relate to their lives. False hope is such a bitch but yet so amusing.

The paper improved after first semester last year when we got a new editor-n-chief. The Missouri Miner has made many advances in towards becoming a noteworthy paper. Although that might be all undone if purposed SGA continues to pull a hostile takeover of the media board.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri 06-25-2004 7:12AM 


Source: Somewhere
Skyhoper wrote:
Please clarify your point. I think by skimming the book you missed many of the key points in the novel. Atlas Shrugged, which is 1100 pages long, is a huge undertaking for most non-avid readers. For me the first 900 pages flew by. Atlas Shrugged encompasses so much and gives perspectives on a diverse group of topics.


I didn't skim it.

Of what I understand, I actually think Objectivism makes a great personal philosophy.
What I dislike is that it doesn't leave much room for other philosophies and in a sense requires people to be altruistic (wouldn't Rand hate that?).

I guess my greatest concern is that it leaves room only for a single type of person - the "producer". And even then it only really allows for the "top" producer.
I found it unrealistic that almost all her characters were the very best people or the very worst.

Skyhoper wrote:
For a lighter storyline I would recommend reading The Fountainhead.


I read it about two weeks ago. I felt Atlas Shrugged was a much better story and a better expression of Rand's philosophy. I thought "The Fountainhead" was mediocre.

Skyhoper wrote:
On your other point, at first I thought as well that Galt’s speech over emphasized that ideas presented in the beginning of the novel but after rereading it found it essential to the novel. Galt’s speech is significant to the novel and I wouldn’t advise skipping it.


I might try to read through it again someday, but from my current point of view it was merely Rand on a soapbox.


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