An incident late Tuesday night in which a UCLA student was stunned at least four times with a Taser has left the UCLA community questioning whether the university police officers' use of force was an appropriate response to the situation. ...... Mostafa Tabatabainejad, a UCLA student, was repeatedly stunned with a Taser and then taken into custody when he did not exit the CLICC Lab in Powell Library in a timely manner. Community Service Officers had asked Tabatabainejad to leave after he failed to produce his BruinCard during a random check at around 11:30 p.m. Tuesday.
...Tabatabainejad was also stunned with the Taser when he was already handcuffed, said Carlos Zaragoza, a third-year English and history student who witnessed the incident.
"(He was) no possible danger to any of the police," Zaragoza said. "(He was) getting shocked and Tasered as he was handcuffed." ...
I saw this earlier. I can't even believe how absolutely retarded those cops were. *TASER* GET UP.................NO? *TASER AGAIN*. Guess they forgot that the whole point of tasering someone was to make them immobile.
I hear it's something like 10 minutes to regain muscle control after being tasered. How many times did they hit him with it? Those were University police no less! Could you imagine a CSO here pulling that shit?
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Post subject: Re: UCLA student tasered by the campus police in library (vi
Posted: Thu 11-16-2006 7:45PM
Colonel
Joined: Wed 08-20-2003 9:47AM Posts: 570
Source: Off Campus
While I agree that is a RIDICULOUS amount of force for someone who is not cooperating and that those officers should be reprimanded, if not fired, the guy should have left when the CSOs asked him. Resisting doesn't help the situation. Just cooperate, and if you think the officers were wrong, do something about it after the fact.
Post subject: Re: UCLA student tasered by the campus police in library (vi
Posted: Thu 11-16-2006 8:02PM
Lieutenant
Joined: Fri 08-26-2005 7:56PM Posts: 84
Source: Fidelity
Altaica wrote:
While I agree that is a RIDICULOUS amount of force for someone who is not cooperating and that those officers should be reprimanded, if not fired, the guy should have left when the CSOs asked him. Resisting doesn't help the situation. Just cooperate, and if you think the officers were wrong, do something about it after the fact.
according to the article he was on his way out with his bag when the CSOs grabbed him..
Post subject: Re: UCLA student tasered by the campus police in library (vi
Posted: Thu 11-16-2006 8:27PM
Colonel
Joined: Wed 08-20-2003 9:47AM Posts: 570
Source: Off Campus
siriusnova wrote:
Altaica wrote:
While I agree that is a RIDICULOUS amount of force for someone who is not cooperating and that those officers should be reprimanded, if not fired, the guy should have left when the CSOs asked him. Resisting doesn't help the situation. Just cooperate, and if you think the officers were wrong, do something about it after the fact.
according to the article he was on his way out with his bag when the CSOs grabbed him..
No, according to the article he was on his way out when the UCPD officers grabbed him... the CSOs got the police when he wouldn't leave.
Dayum...makes me wonder if they should require someone to recieve a taser shock themselves before being allowed to carry one....maybe it'd make them think twice before using them so liberally....even if the pain "stops" after the shock ends, I suspect that if I got hit by something that nasty, I'd be curled up around said area screaming in pain . . . I really hope the officers responsible have to face appropriate consequences....
EDIT: Oh yeah, and (trying to read between the lines here), judging from the taser victim's name, I'm kinda curious if race was any kind of factor in the incident....
Dayum...makes me wonder if they should require someone to recieve a taser shock themselves before being allowed to carry one....maybe it'd make them think twice before using them so liberally....even if the pain "stops" after the shock ends, I suspect that if I got hit by something that nasty, I'd be curled up around said area screaming in pain . . . I really hope the officers responsible have to face appropriate consequences....
EDIT: Oh yeah, and (trying to read between the lines here), judging from the taser victim's name, I'm kinda curious if race was any kind of factor in the incident....
They typically do make officers get tased and maced/pepper sprayed before giving them the equipment.
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Holy shit. I'm surprise that with that many people there somebody didn't atleast try to stop it, if by nothing else than tossing a book or two. Times like that are when the mob mentality pays off, it would only take one and the rest follow. I do hope those guys are atleast fired. It's fucking retarded, you taser somebody two or three times in less than 4 minutes and yell at them to stop dragging their feet or they get tasered again? Jesus, you probably wouldn't even be walking for a while anyway.
On the other hand, this kid should have it made, or I'd hope so with some kind of settlement.
I'm going to have to dissent on this and say this guy got what he deserved and the police did the correct thing.
1.Rolla is relatively safe, but UCLA has considerably more crime, including rape. The University decided to limit access to the library at night to cut down on crime. If they did not do this there would be lawsuits from sue-happy parents about how their daughter was raped and the University needs to provide more protection. They even have CSOs posted at the door. School security is a very sensitive issue these days as we saw when 17 cop cars converged at the local school for the photographer. UCLA has said that if you don't have an ID, you aren't in the library. period.
2.The CSOs, without any violence, aggression, or raising of voice, politely asked him to leave. That's the part where he would've left if he had 2 brain cells. The CSO then called for the UCPD and for the record, UCPD are just as real as any other cops, as stated in section 830.2 of the California Penal code. While he was waiting for the real police to show up, he still didn't leave.
3.The first time we see him in the video, he's getting tasered. The cops just don't show up and taser someone right off the bat. There was words before the video, but police videos never show the cops being nice. That would also be a perfect opportunity for him to leave, but he obviously isn't too bright. The important thing to understand here is that when the tasers came out, he was no longer being asked to leave, he was being arrested. He was creating a disturbance and not following lawful directions of police.
4. He was doing it for show. He got the crowd to get a little mob going on. I especially loved the part where the one student gets in the officer's face almost getting to riot level. When he saw stuff like that, that encouraged him to yell and create a scene like a whiny little bitch.
5. Tasers are not meant to immobilize. They are for compliance. If you get tased once, you aren't going to fall down like a sissy unable to move. If that was true, there would never be a need anywhere to taser someone twice, but alas, some people do get tasered multiple times. Even at the end of the video when you see him getting dragged out, if you look at him, he is holding himself upright. If he was truly disabled, he would be bent down more from exhaustion. Again, he's doing it for show.
6. Someone is going to point out that he got tased while on the ground in handcuffs. Police departmental policies have Use of Force charts detailing responses to certain actions. Usually, police are allowed to respond with a use of force one level higher. You throw a punch, they throw a baton. You get out a knife, they get out a gun. This guy was passively resistive. He wasn't hurting anyone, wasn't being violent, but was just sitting there bitching like a little girl. A match of force would be the police just bitching back and they'd have a little debate all day long. They didn't come to debate, they came to get the guy out of the building as quickly and safely as possible. They don't know who this guy is or if he is armed. One level up from verbal play would be OC spray, forcing the guy to the ground, or the taser. OC spray doesn't work in crowds, so that's out, leaving wrestling and taser. Wrestling opens up both the cops and the guy to possible injury and allows the guy to steal the cop's gun. Tasers, it turns out, are actually the safest method for all involved, which is why he got tased instead of dragged out of the building first. They tased him once and then stopped. When they stopped tasing, the pain went away and he could've gotten up and complied, but it's obvious by now that this guy has poor decision making skills, so multiple tasings were needed. Since tasing once doesn't immobilize someone, they couldn't carry him out. They want him calm before they carry him because if they carry him and he fights and they drop him on his head, they are getting sued, not to mention the injury that he'll get. The supreme court has ruled that cops can taser someone while in handcuffs if they do resist, because while they may not appear like a danger to everyone else, they are a danger to themselves and besides the police are not there to play games.
7. This guy needs to watch Chris Rock's video
video
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You make some good points, and I agree with much of what you're saying, but if this is an acceptable use of force, I don't like the precedence it sets. I don't feel that non-violent resistance should be met with a show of violence. I've watched COPS enough to know that 1-2 officers are perfectly capable of handcuffing and carrying an individual.
You don't need to taser someone to remove them from a building if they are not acting aggressively. From what I recall of the article, it doesn't sound like he was kicking or flailing or anything, he just went limp on the way out... Drag the dumbass out, don't start shocking him to make him stand up.
The precedent was already set long ago. It used to be legal to shoot fleeing felons. There is no violent resistance there. Policy has changed over the years with all the lawsuits. If you thought the McDonalds hot coffee suit was bullshit, you should read some of the suits they have of excessive force.
I mostly agree with you about non-violent resistance not getting violent, but I don't think this guy was exactly Ghadi or Rosa Parks. He was trying to start a riot which would lead to more violence. In this situation, they need to shut him down before a riot breaks out.
1-2 cops easily handcuff people all the time. The problem is that no one knew who this guy was and if he had a weapon. There is a possibility that he could've been a serial rapist armed to the teeth with a rap sheet miles long. Also, just because he is passive does not mean that he will not become aggressive. He could be acting like he's immobilized, hoping that some of the students will distract the cops enough for him to blow everyone away. Yes, 1-2 officers will cut it 99% of the time, but cops like to go home at night and carrying a crazy person who may or may not be armed is not the best idea, especially if drugs are involved. If you read the Rolla Daily News a few weeks ago, there was a cop who was fighting with a guy in the street near Alex's pizza. The cop knew that during the fight that the guy was high on drugs because he found that beating the guy with a baton really didn't do anything, so he had to switch to his gun to get the guy to stop. These cops didn't know what this guy was planning to do and yelling at them gives them even more reason to take extra precautions and if that means frying the guy until he behaves like an angel, so be it. In the end, they did drag him out but only after he was tasered enough so that he wouldn't become violent.
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