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PostPosted: Fri 11-17-2006 12:44PM 
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Kongfuzi wrote:
On that note, another taser video just showed up on the news.


Oh? Is that online anywhere yet? Couldn't really find anything new on youtube.


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PostPosted: Fri 11-17-2006 1:40PM 
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I'll see if I can find it, just caught it while I was eating lunch.


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PostPosted: Fri 11-17-2006 3:33PM 
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As SilverRaven83 pointed out, this guy probably could've gotten up at anytime and walked out with the cops. If he was truly unable to get up and walk, do you think the cops are going to seriously shock him just for fun in the middle of a crowd of angry students? No, they want to get the fuck out of there and to do that, they need compliance.

The video and article don't show everything. For most of the video, you don't even see the guy, so who knows what he is doing, but of course we can always assume that the article is always 100% correct, right? If the cops were truly shocking someone that is obviously immobilized, then students need to file a formal complaint instead of trying to play hero. If a cop is so dirty that he's shocking the shit out of someone right in front of me, I have enough brains to know that telling 4 guys with guns to fuck off is not a good idea and that getting a complaint is never a good day for a cop. If this guy wasn't immobilized and was just acting, I would kick him in the balls while he was on the ground. When he quickly grabs them in pain, hey look his muscles work just fine.

The running away situation is just hypothetical and there are many situations that can develop. Let's say that this guy entered the library with intent to do something bad. Then he gets caught and starts a riot. With a few cops fighting 100+ people, this guy could just get up and stroll out in the middle of all the chaos even with handcuffs on because the cops aren't going to be able to pay attention to him any longer. He could then get his handcuffs removed, come back sometime later and do something bad. Then everyone is going to wonder how inept the cops are when a few of them can't catch one little guy, especially one that wasn't showing signs of aggression.

If the cops are doing something wrong to you and you shout,kick,resist, your actions will be met with a level of force one level higher. You have been warned that if you try to get attention like that, you will get your ass kicked and I won't feel sorry. You got court and the world is filled with plenty of lawyers dying to nail dirty cops. It's much safer to battle in the courtroom.

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PostPosted: Fri 11-17-2006 4:17PM 
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Agentzak wrote:
As SilverRaven83 pointed out, this guy probably could've gotten up at anytime and walked out with the cops.

He was on his way out when they grabbed him.

Agentzak wrote:
If he was truly unable to get up and walk, do you think the cops are going to seriously shock him just for fun in the middle of a crowd of angry students? No, they want to get the fuck out of there and to do that, they need compliance.


I didn't say for fun, thought it could have been. It could have been just plain old dumbasses who have a badge. Because we all the know the police are always right. They were never kick the shit out of a person just because they're black. Or shoot somebody holding a goddamn chalupa, set of keys, etc. They would also never taze somebody who was calling to make sure the actual police pulled them over. Recently there was also the incident in LA where two officers were questioned a 78 year old man , when he turned to one of the officers, they tazed him without trying to use a lesser form of restraint if any was even needed.

For the kid, I'm not talking about hypotheticals. I'm talking about the fact that he was not acting violently in any way. He was not punching or kicking. He was shouting to get people to see what was happening. And if you're trying to justify the officer telling the person asking for badge numbers to back off or be tazed, that was declared illegal.

Not everybody that dies from being tazed is on drugs as you would believe. For instance, not too long ago there was the young man in Missouri, in his mid-20s who was dressed in a suit carrying a bible and shouting something about Jesus or God or some other crap. He died and the medical examiner found no drugs, and this is not a single case.

People need to stop acting like the badge they wearing is a fucking shield. Your idea would be correct except you overlooked one thing. People are not lovable creatures who follow the rules all the time, police are no exception. They just happen to get away with either kicking the shit out of people or just outright causing innocent deaths second only to rich politicians.


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PostPosted: Fri 11-17-2006 5:17PM 
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Kongfuzi wrote:
Agentzak wrote:
As SilverRaven83 pointed out, this guy probably could've gotten up at anytime and walked out with the cops.

He was on his way out when they grabbed him.
When the UCPD showed up, he was no longer free to go. He could've gotten up at any time and walked out with the cops.

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They would also never taze somebody who was calling to make sure the actual police pulled them over. Recently there was also the incident in LA where two officers were questioned a 78 year old man , when he turned to one of the officers, they tazed him without trying to use a lesser form of restraint if any was even needed.


Bob Barker is 82 and if you need to arrest him, good luck if he puts up a fight. I don't know about the LA cops, so I won't speak on it. About that video. I'd say that is actually a perfect example of how to properly use a taser. She was not calling to make sure that they were cops. She said she was calling "somebody". If she doubted that they were indeed cops, she wouldn't have pulled over. She should've kept driving and called 911. She even says that policemen are pulling her over, so she knows. The comments below are even funnier, yet a horribly sad reflection about how little people know about the law. When you get pulled over you have to hang up the phone if the officer says so because you are in fact under arrest. You may not have cuffs, you may not have been read your rights, but the supreme court says that you are under arrest. Again, the officer is not pulling you over so he can stand on the side of the busy road and watch while you talk to your friends, they are there to give you a ticket and they don't have all day. Talking on the phone when someone is trying to talk to you is just plain rude. Again, her actions got her ass tased. Don't give the police shit and you will not get tased. I guarantee it.

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For the kid, I'm not talking about hypotheticals. I'm talking about the fact that he was not acting violently in any way. He was not punching or kicking. He was shouting to get people to see what was happening.
You underestimate the danger of passive resistance. Passive resistance is resistance and when the opportunity arises, criminals go from being sweet little innocent non-violent protesters to thugs.

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And if you're trying to justify the officer telling the person asking for badge numbers to back off or be tazed, that was declared illegal.
This was definately out of line. Telling them that they will be placed under arrest if they don't go away is alright, but threatening force was a little extreme in this instance. As far as the guy on the ground getting tased, they acted correctly towards him.



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Not everybody that dies from being tazed is on drugs as you would believe. For instance, not too long ago there was the young man in Missouri, in his mid-20s who was dressed in a suit carrying a bible and shouting something about Jesus or God or some other crap. He died and the medical examiner found no drugs, and this is not a single case.
Probability of someone getting hurt in a hands on fight>>probability of death from taser

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People need to stop acting like the badge they wearing is a fucking shield. Your idea would be correct except you overlooked one thing. People are not lovable creatures who follow the rules all the time, police are no exception. They just happen to get away with either kicking the shit out of people or just outright causing innocent deaths second only to rich politicians.


There are some police that just like to have power. I hate them. Then they are some police that make it their 1 and only mission to wipe criminals off of the bottom of their shoe and nothing else. I like those guys.

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PostPosted: Fri 11-17-2006 11:23PM 
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It's like a kid that throws a tantrum. You can't just keep beating the kid in the middle of the grocery store until he does what you want him to do. You drag him out of the grocery store, put him in time-out, and then while he's making his scene, you can just ignore him and wait for him to give up.

I think that if the cops really wanted to get that guy out of there, then they would have forcibly dragged him out of the library, and shoved him in the back of the police car. Instead, there was a crowd of people watching, and the cops weren't going to let the guy disobey them in front of the onlookers.


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PostPosted: Fri 11-17-2006 11:31PM 
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lojic311 wrote:
It's like a kid that throws a tantrum. You can't just keep beating the kid in the middle of the grocery store until he does what you want him to do. You drag him out of the grocery store, put him in time-out, and then while he's making his scene, you can just ignore him and wait for him to give up.

The kid can't sue and parents have way more rights over kids than cops will ever have.

Quote:
I think that if the cops really wanted to get that guy out of there, then they would have forcibly dragged him out of the library, and shoved him in the back of the police car. Instead, there was a crowd of people watching, and the cops weren't going to let the guy disobey them in front of the onlookers.
Dragging out someone who is not cooperating is always a very bad idea.

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PostPosted: Sat 11-18-2006 12:38AM 
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Kongfuzi wrote:
He was on his way out when they grabbed him.
yeah, he was just happily on his way out when two thug police officers got in the way. seriously, he wasn't just leaving peacefully, he was trying to leave with a scene. i bet that had the cops not shown up, he would've kept making a scene/waited until they showed up so that he could draw attention to himself.

Quote:
For the kid, I'm not talking about hypotheticals. I'm talking about the fact that he was not acting violently in any way. He was not punching or kicking. He was shouting to get people to see what was happening. And if you're trying to justify the officer telling the person asking for badge numbers to back off or be tazed, that was declared illegal.

at the very start of this it said that one officer put his hand on his arm to escort him out, and the guy flipped out at this. now all you may hear is "get the fuck off me" but i can gurantee that thats accompanied by a angry shove of the policeman's arm off of his. police don't respond kindly when you shove any part of them. they're not going to be like a friend who puts his hands in the air, backs off, and says my bad. so him trying to play the "im an innocent victim" card is BS imo (i'll follow this up in a sec). the police simply acted as required - guy resisting arrest, subdue him.

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People need to stop acting like the badge they wearing is a fucking shield. Your idea would be correct except you overlooked one thing. People are not lovable creatures who follow the rules all the time, police are no exception. They just happen to get away with either kicking the shit out of people or just outright causing innocent deaths second only to rich politicians.
the trust we place in police officers in our society is very high, yes. but in 99 percent of officers, they have earned and deserve that badge. for the small minority who do abuse their power, then hopefully it will come out if the proper complaints are filed. the students should've all returned to their seats and filed a complaint at a later time if they felt there was a problem.

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PostPosted: Sat 11-18-2006 5:25AM 
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You can bet and guarantee all you want, but much like wishing or rubbing a lamp, it won't make it happen. I have seen the error of my ways. Obviously the portion of the student body that stood witness was in error and the crazed terrorist was preparing to launch a frontal assault with a weapon hidden upon his person after performing a Houdini-like escape while held on the floor by not one, not two, but three police officers. I think I might take up a security gig somewhere so I can deal out the fiery justice that is found in the carrying of a taser. If somebody does not move as quickly as I think they should, or if heaven forbid they make a smart-ass comment, I shall take it as proof of their heinous intentions and shock them until spittle that is dripping from their mouth evaporates.

As for the comment about what would happen if they tried to arrest Bob Barker, I'll see if I can re-find the link (thought I had linked it like the other youtube), but I think you misinterpreted what I said. The old man *turned* to face one of the police officers, because apparently they want an answer when you speak to them. It was when he turned to face him, they apparently decided he was a national security threat.

I must say I applaud those of you who have such good intentions. I can't wait to see you young, aggressive go-getters in the workforce. 99% is also a high figure for any profession, let alone police.


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PostPosted: Sat 11-18-2006 7:52PM 
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"Don't touch me, don't touch me" "Stand up, stand up"

I am curious who was saying that? If the guy was saying "Don't touch me, don't touch me" then that sounds like resisting arrest. If the cops were saying "Stand up, stand up" that doesn't really sound like he was "On his way out." The dude was wanting a scene, hence the patriot act comment that had NOTHING to do with this. The guy was in the wrong patriot act or not, and he screamed "okay okayand then says "fuck off" when they tell him to stand up. They MIGHT have used excessive force, but I am thinking atleast ONE tasering would be called for. The dude WAS resisting arrest when screaming "get off me" and all that bullshit. I will let any four of you guys try and carry me, handcuffed out of a building without using violence... I am fatter than that guy, that is true, but you will not be able to do it. And when you drop me, I will make sure my head hits something solid and sue your ass, and I will win. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything on here, I am saying what would, could have happened in this case. The guy WAS in the wrong, the Police MAY have been in the wrong.

And, one other thing to roll around is, when scooter kid collapsed, how long did it take to get UMRPD there? Do you think UCLAPD acted faster? How long do you think it took them? I doubt it was immediate.

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PostPosted: Sat 11-18-2006 8:34PM 
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Police Report

Also note that before using the taser, cops did try to escort him out but he refused. It looks like they didn't just show up and start tasing him.

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PostPosted: Sat 11-18-2006 9:18PM 
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Agentzak wrote:
Police Report

Also note that before using the taser, cops did try to escort him out but he refused. It looks like they didn't just show up and start tasing him.


I'm interested to see the outcome of the administrative review. I've never disputed that he was resisting or causing a scene (in fact I've even said so myself, and that he was a douchebag for doing so), but I still dispute the necessity of the level of force they used. If he was aggressively resisting (ie. fighting against the officers), then I agree 100% with the level of force used. If he just went limp, as has been suggested in article, and apparently now in the official report, then I don't agree with the level of force used. I was hoping to see the other video that someone mentioned to get a better view of what really happened, since we all know that reports, articles, and statements can be biased. Unedited video is one of the few things that never lies.


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PostPosted: Sun 11-19-2006 5:29AM 
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jthxv wrote:
"Don't touch me, don't touch me" "Stand up, stand up"

I am curious who was saying that? If the guy was saying "Don't touch me, don't touch me" then that sounds like resisting arrest. If the cops were saying "Stand up, stand up" that doesn't really sound like he was "On his way out." The dude was wanting a scene, hence the patriot act comment that had NOTHING to do with this. The guy was in the wrong patriot act or not, and he screamed "okay okayand then says "fuck off" when they tell him to stand up. They MIGHT have used excessive force, but I am thinking atleast ONE tasering would be called for. The dude WAS resisting arrest when screaming "get off me" and all that bullshit. I will let any four of you guys try and carry me, handcuffed out of a building without using violence... I am fatter than that guy, that is true, but you will not be able to do it. And when you drop me, I will make sure my head hits something solid and sue your ass, and I will win. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything on here, I am saying what would, could have happened in this case. The guy WAS in the wrong, the Police MAY have been in the wrong.

And, one other thing to roll around is, when scooter kid collapsed, how long did it take to get UMRPD there? Do you think UCLAPD acted faster? How long do you think it took them? I doubt it was immediate.


quoted for truth.

also, from the sound of things he wasn't just sitting there limp and having a shouting match with officers. else why would students feel the need to get up/video tape the incident BEFORE tasering. obviously something more was happening than simply a guy having a shouting match with officers and then get tasered unprovoked?

plus, IMO he was being melodramatic the entire time.

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PostPosted: Sun 11-19-2006 12:15PM 
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The big question is, whats funnier watching someone get tasered, or watching someone get kicking in the balls? Discuss.

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PostPosted: Sun 11-19-2006 12:30PM 
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Fall0ut-Boy wrote:
The big question is, whats funnier watching someone get tasered, or watching someone get kicking in the balls? Discuss.


That's easy. Watching someone get tased in the balls...with the sharp probes.

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