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 Post subject: Another casualty to the drug war
PostPosted: Wed 01-31-2007 10:32AM 
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Brigadier General

Joined: Tue 01-22-2002 12:35PM
Posts: 1057
Location: Shawnee Mission, KS

Source: Off Campus
http://www.news4jax.com/news/10865262/detail.html

Short version: Undercover cops staged a drug deal on this 80 year old guy's property (he was not involved in the deal; the officers were merely "borrowing" his yard) with some neighboring dealers. The 80 year old recognized the drug dealers and came out of his house with a gun and told them to leave. Cops (still undercover) told him to put his gun down. He refused, they shot and killed him.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed 01-31-2007 10:42AM 
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Lieutenant General
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Location: The Bat Cave

Source: MST-WPA Wireless
Quote:
The officers said they ordered the man to put down the gun.


Where they in uniform?

Identify themselves as police?

Ask a property owners fucking permission to bring weapons and potentially deadly chemicals onto his property?

Sounds to me, it is just too bad he didn't kill the two TRESPASSERS first.....

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Carney Institute of Technology

Why not outlaw MURDER instead of trying to outlaw guns?


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PostPosted: Wed 01-31-2007 12:56PM 
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Colonel

Joined: Wed 08-20-2003 9:47AM
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Source: MST Wireless
I was under the impression that these types of operations were usually video or audio recorded... If it was recorded, I figure that should clear up any confusion about the matter. If it wasn't, why was it not?


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PostPosted: Wed 01-31-2007 1:50PM 
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Source: Fulton Hall
Altaica wrote:
I was under the impression that these types of operations were usually video or audio recorded... If it was recorded, I figure that should clear up any confusion about the matter. If it wasn't, why was it not?


So that if the cops kill someone, there's nobody else to testify. That's my guess. I'm glad that this kind of stuff doesn't happen much here in Missouri.

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PostPosted: Wed 01-31-2007 2:03PM 
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Colonel

Joined: Wed 08-20-2003 9:47AM
Posts: 570

Source: MST Wireless
Yeah, no kidding... I think I saw in the article that this was the third incident of this nature in as many weeks. Might be time for some reforms there...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed 01-31-2007 2:27PM 
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Major General
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Source: EE Building
Just ridiculous. Apparently it was worth this man's life to keep the guise that they were cops. Bullshit.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed 01-31-2007 5:12PM 
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Major

Joined: Wed 08-18-2004 6:51PM
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Source: Kelly Hall
If they never identified themselves as undercover, bring them both up under charges of manslaughter. Police acting like drug dealers and not identifying themselves as not being drug dealers + shooting a man to death = murder.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed 01-31-2007 8:27PM 
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Debunker of Llamas
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The story clearly states that no one knows who fired the first shot. That makes a huge difference.

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PostPosted: Wed 01-31-2007 8:32PM 
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Not to me. The only thing I can see that matters is whether they positively identified themselves as police. They had no right to be on his property in the first place, and they particularly shouldn't have been there when he ASKED them to live!

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Carney Institute of Technology

Why not outlaw MURDER instead of trying to outlaw guns?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu 02-01-2007 1:59AM 
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bertowned
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Source: TJ North
you're jumping the gun (pardon the pun) to assume that the old man did not come barging out of his house - say GTFO, and before wating for a response, started shooting.

not that i'm saying that this is the case, but none of us really know any of the facts, so lots not try to pretend that someone was in the right or wrong just because of what we think may have/may not have happened.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu 02-01-2007 2:20AM 
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Colonel

Joined: Wed 08-20-2003 9:47AM
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Source: Off Campus
amd2800barton wrote:
you're jumping the gun (pardon the pun) to assume that the old man did not come barging out of his house - say GTFO, and before wating for a response, started shooting.

not that i'm saying that this is the case, but none of us really know any of the facts, so lots not try to pretend that someone was in the right or wrong just because of what we think may have/may not have happened.


I agree that we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves without knowing all the facts, but I think at least one thing is for certain... cops shouldn't be using someone's private property for drug stings without permission. I don't know how that can even be legal, especially if the owner (supposedly) asked them to leave...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu 02-01-2007 2:31AM 
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bertowned
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Source: TJ North
again playing the devil's advocate - how do we know they weren't barely on his property, such as at the corner of his driveway (legally considered public property). the article doesn't say that they were stinging drugs from this guy's front porch.

but, assuming that they were obviously on his property, and that he asked and gave the cops time to leave, and the officers failed to identify themselves as police - then yes the two officers were certianly in the wrong. at this point thoug, who knows? for all i do, the cops could've just been trying to actually buy drugs on this guys lawn and when he asked them to leave they shot him abusing their power. like i said - who knows?

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BigPeeOn wrote:
Here's the deal: chemistry is the devil.
Anything beyond balancing an chemical equation is black magic.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu 02-01-2007 8:44AM 
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Lieutenant General
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Source: Off Campus
amd2800barton wrote:
again playing the devil's advocate - how do we know they weren't barely on his property, such as at the corner of his driveway (legally considered public property). the article doesn't say that they were stinging drugs from this guy's front porch.

but, assuming that they were obviously on his property, and that he asked and gave the cops time to leave, and the officers failed to identify themselves as police - then yes the two officers were certianly in the wrong. at this point thoug, who knows? for all i do, the cops could've just been trying to actually buy drugs on this guys lawn and when he asked them to leave they shot him abusing their power. like i said - who knows?


I'd say it is a pretty good assumption (still an assumption, I know) that he didn't come barging out of the house, guns blazing, because the cops spokespeople would have said so (again, that is my THOUGHTS). I don't care if they were barely on his property or not, they were putting the entire neighborhood in danger (both by bringing drugs and possibly dangerous armed drug dealers) onto his property. What happens if there is a shoot out when they go to make the bust and a an innocent person dies? I understand what you are saying, I just don't agree. I don't care about the drugdealer, and the cops are in charge of themselves, I care about all of the danger they subject civilians to when this kind of careless shit is pulled....

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Carney Institute of Technology

Why not outlaw MURDER instead of trying to outlaw guns?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu 02-01-2007 9:58AM 
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Brigadier General
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Location: Quad

Source: TJ South
"Police said they are still trying to figure out if the undercover officers had time to tell Singletary they were undercover officers."

That right there should tell you they didn't identify themselves as POs, but rather they want to investigate if the officers had TIME to tell him.

""There was a confrontation between them and an exchange of gunfire,""
There is your time.

And I am pretty sure I read somewhere they were taking up a portion of his yard, which is deemed private property. I'm generally nicer to cops than most I know, but damn. This was fucked up on their part from the get-go.


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