Short version: Undercover cops staged a drug deal on this 80 year old guy's property (he was not involved in the deal; the officers were merely "borrowing" his yard) with some neighboring dealers. The 80 year old recognized the drug dealers and came out of his house with a gun and told them to leave. Cops (still undercover) told him to put his gun down. He refused, they shot and killed him.
I was under the impression that these types of operations were usually video or audio recorded... If it was recorded, I figure that should clear up any confusion about the matter. If it wasn't, why was it not?
Joined: Fri 01-24-2003 7:13PM Posts: 1652 Location: down the hill
Source: Fulton Hall
Altaica wrote:
I was under the impression that these types of operations were usually video or audio recorded... If it was recorded, I figure that should clear up any confusion about the matter. If it wasn't, why was it not?
So that if the cops kill someone, there's nobody else to testify. That's my guess. I'm glad that this kind of stuff doesn't happen much here in Missouri.
_________________ heretic^ stars as Samuel Jackson in the summer's newest thriller: Owls on a Forum!
Yeah, no kidding... I think I saw in the article that this was the third incident of this nature in as many weeks. Might be time for some reforms there...
If they never identified themselves as undercover, bring them both up under charges of manslaughter. Police acting like drug dealers and not identifying themselves as not being drug dealers + shooting a man to death = murder.
Joined: Mon 11-17-2003 12:27AM Posts: 3128 Location: The Bat Cave
Source: Off Campus
Not to me. The only thing I can see that matters is whether they positively identified themselves as police. They had no right to be on his property in the first place, and they particularly shouldn't have been there when he ASKED them to live!
_________________ Carney Institute of Technology
Why not outlaw MURDER instead of trying to outlaw guns?
you're jumping the gun (pardon the pun) to assume that the old man did not come barging out of his house - say GTFO, and before wating for a response, started shooting.
not that i'm saying that this is the case, but none of us really know any of the facts, so lots not try to pretend that someone was in the right or wrong just because of what we think may have/may not have happened.
_________________
BigPeeOn wrote:
Here's the deal: chemistry is the devil. Anything beyond balancing an chemical equation is black magic.
you're jumping the gun (pardon the pun) to assume that the old man did not come barging out of his house - say GTFO, and before wating for a response, started shooting.
not that i'm saying that this is the case, but none of us really know any of the facts, so lots not try to pretend that someone was in the right or wrong just because of what we think may have/may not have happened.
I agree that we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves without knowing all the facts, but I think at least one thing is for certain... cops shouldn't be using someone's private property for drug stings without permission. I don't know how that can even be legal, especially if the owner (supposedly) asked them to leave...
again playing the devil's advocate - how do we know they weren't barely on his property, such as at the corner of his driveway (legally considered public property). the article doesn't say that they were stinging drugs from this guy's front porch.
but, assuming that they were obviously on his property, and that he asked and gave the cops time to leave, and the officers failed to identify themselves as police - then yes the two officers were certianly in the wrong. at this point thoug, who knows? for all i do, the cops could've just been trying to actually buy drugs on this guys lawn and when he asked them to leave they shot him abusing their power. like i said - who knows?
_________________
BigPeeOn wrote:
Here's the deal: chemistry is the devil. Anything beyond balancing an chemical equation is black magic.
Joined: Mon 11-17-2003 12:27AM Posts: 3128 Location: The Bat Cave
Source: Off Campus
amd2800barton wrote:
again playing the devil's advocate - how do we know they weren't barely on his property, such as at the corner of his driveway (legally considered public property). the article doesn't say that they were stinging drugs from this guy's front porch.
but, assuming that they were obviously on his property, and that he asked and gave the cops time to leave, and the officers failed to identify themselves as police - then yes the two officers were certianly in the wrong. at this point thoug, who knows? for all i do, the cops could've just been trying to actually buy drugs on this guys lawn and when he asked them to leave they shot him abusing their power. like i said - who knows?
I'd say it is a pretty good assumption (still an assumption, I know) that he didn't come barging out of the house, guns blazing, because the cops spokespeople would have said so (again, that is my THOUGHTS). I don't care if they were barely on his property or not, they were putting the entire neighborhood in danger (both by bringing drugs and possibly dangerous armed drug dealers) onto his property. What happens if there is a shoot out when they go to make the bust and a an innocent person dies? I understand what you are saying, I just don't agree. I don't care about the drugdealer, and the cops are in charge of themselves, I care about all of the danger they subject civilians to when this kind of careless shit is pulled....
_________________ Carney Institute of Technology
Why not outlaw MURDER instead of trying to outlaw guns?
"Police said they are still trying to figure out if the undercover officers had time to tell Singletary they were undercover officers."
That right there should tell you they didn't identify themselves as POs, but rather they want to investigate if the officers had TIME to tell him.
""There was a confrontation between them and an exchange of gunfire,""
There is your time.
And I am pretty sure I read somewhere they were taking up a portion of his yard, which is deemed private property. I'm generally nicer to cops than most I know, but damn. This was fucked up on their part from the get-go.
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