Paul also holds that children born in the United States to illegal aliens should not be granted automatic citizenship. He has called for a Constitutional amendment to revise the Fourteenth Amendment, to "end automatic birthright citizenship" in order to address welfare issues.
I can't say I agree with this position at all. I believe that if you are born in the US, then you are a citizen. I see where hes coming from with this one, but it seems like it would be prone to abuse.
I think the opposite. This would ease a concern that immigrants would willy nilly jump the border if their children are going to be citizens automatically.
This would do nothing to stem the flow of illegal immigration. They come because there is a demand for their labor. Fix that, and you no longer have a substantial illegal immigration problem. Go ahead and build a fence, then sit back and watch it not work. Its the same reason the war on drugs has failed; demand is not being attacked (very strongly), only supply. This does not work.
Work is the #1 reason. Some of those social programs weren't around before the major influx of illegals. The only way to slow illegal immigration is to hold companies that hire illegals responsible. Creating a bigger/better fence, scrapping social services, and taking away people's right to citizenship (who were born in this country) are all very good ways to create an even bigger mess. Think efficiency; we all hate gov't waste don't we? What sounds like it would be cheaper/easier/less intrusive?
Say you had a problem with bugs in your kitchen. You had a big pile of spilled sugar in the middle of the kitchen floor, and it just kept attracting bugs. You complain to me that you've tried everything: roach motels, bait traps, hermetically sealing your house, but all to no avail since the sugar keeps attracting bugs.
I'm just going to stand there and blink in goggle-eyed amazement, wondering "Why don't you try getting rid of the sugar in the middle of the floor?"
There is always going to be a problem when a prosperous nation has a land border with a poor one (you'll note that we don't have swarms of Canucks pouring across the border, except maybe to buy cigarettes,) but why compound it by offering a vast cornucopia of free stuff that makes entry too enticing to resist? As long as this is the land of the handout, people who want handouts will come here looking for one. When you subsidize freeloading you can't complain about freeloaders, domestic or imported.
tom, the only way to get rid of illegal aliens is to get rid of the cheap labor problem. Let me define the cheap labor problem. Labor in the US is expensive. Manpower is the single highest business expense for most businesses. That's why robots have replaced many factory workers in the auto industry, etc. That means that anybody who is willing to work for less is more likely to get hired - they can't hire americans who would want minimum wage, so they hire illegal aliens to do the job.
The only way to fix that is to make labor not so expensive. Do you know why labor is so expensive? Part of it is the minimum wage, although inflation will cause the price of living to increase to the point that the minimum wage is in equilibrium with the workforce again. The most important reason that manpower is so expensive is scarcity. That's right.
The government in fact pays a large portion of the workforce to stay home and watch cable TV. The majority of those are the unskilled labor that should be harvesting fruit, mowing lawns, and packing chickens into Tyson boxes. If we quit letting those people freeload off our wages, they'd have to get their own jobs. Get rid of minimum wage, and they'd work for less.
I can hear you saying that they couldn't survive on that money. They sure could if they didn't buy that Motorola RAZR with the 10000 minute plan and a dozen games, if they cancelled their cable TV subscription, stopped paying for Everquest and World of Warcraft, stopped buying lotto tickets, bought rice/beans/bread/potatos/beef instead of Little Debbie/Mountain Dew/Doritos/Hungry Man frozen dinners.
You get rid of freeloader support programs, and they'll get a job or die. Either would be fine with me. Then there wouldn't be such a demand for illegal labor. If the mexicans want to come up here and work, that's fine. But nobody should be paid to sit around and get fat watching cable TV and doing drugs.
_________________ heretic^ stars as Samuel Jackson in the summer's newest thriller: Owls on a Forum!
While I don't think welfare should be offered to them anyway, my stereotype of the Mexican immigrant (legal or illegal) isn't one of coming here to live off of public assistance. My stereotype of them is of people willing to bust their ass doing hard jobs for not much (by our standards) money.
Quote:
I can hear you saying that they couldn't survive on that money. They sure could if they didn't buy that Motorola RAZR with the 10000 minute plan and a dozen games, if they cancelled their cable TV subscription, stopped paying for Everquest and World of Warcraft, stopped buying lotto tickets,
Say you had a problem with bugs in your kitchen. You had a big pile of spilled sugar in the middle of the kitchen floor, and it just kept attracting bugs. You complain to me that you've tried everything: roach motels, bait traps, hermetically sealing your house, but all to no avail since the sugar keeps attracting bugs.
I'm just going to stand there and blink in goggle-eyed amazement, wondering "Why don't you try getting rid of the sugar in the middle of the floor?"
There is always going to be a problem when a prosperous nation has a land border with a poor one (you'll note that we don't have swarms of Canucks pouring across the border, except maybe to buy cigarettes,) but why compound it by offering a vast cornucopia of free stuff that makes entry too enticing to resist? As long as this is the land of the handout, people who want handouts will come here looking for one. When you subsidize freeloading you can't complain about freeloaders, domestic or imported.
You get rid of freeloader support programs, and they'll get a job or die. Either would be fine with me. Then there wouldn't be such a demand for illegal labor. If the mexicans want to come up here and work, that's fine. But nobody should be paid to sit around and get fat watching cable TV and doing drugs.
I am disappointed in you Prophet, you forgot one of the favorite, and most detrimental activity of welfarites: MAKING BABIES. Since the government pays for their children, they don't worry about all the expenses that come with kids, so they keep cranking them out. Not to mention that OFTEN, they successfully instill the leach mentality in their offspring, helping to add even more burden to future generations...
_________________ Carney Institute of Technology
Why not outlaw MURDER instead of trying to outlaw guns?
actually - its a pretty common misconception that welfare babies are profitable. i'm sure many welfare parents believe this myth, but the government stipend is not enough to raise a child even with reasonably stringy parents.
Not that i'm championing for higher welfare payouts - thats retarded. The system is broken and isn't doing what it's supposedly intended to do (help people) and instead is just costing the rest of us a fortune for ~zero benefit for individuals OR society as a whole.
_________________
BigPeeOn wrote:
Here's the deal: chemistry is the devil. Anything beyond balancing an chemical equation is black magic.
Joined: Mon 11-17-2003 12:27AM Posts: 3128 Location: The Bat Cave
Source: Fidelity
Is that between ALL of the various systems? WIC, Welfare, Food Stamps, hell there may be more, I don't know of... Not to mention the people who collect in several different jurisdictions, and those who just don't marry their "baby's daddy" (even though they live together) just because he makes $45,000-$50,000, and they wouldn't be able collect welfare anymore...
_________________ Carney Institute of Technology
Why not outlaw MURDER instead of trying to outlaw guns?
No - it still isn't profitable... it just reduces the cost to them. And examples like that (fairly common) are the very reason i said Welfare was broken. We're arguing the same points. i just pointed out that people who honestly believe they can make money by squeezing out bastards every year or so are fairly delusional, and rare to actually find someone practicing it. Still doesn't mean the system ain't broken, just that the sterotype of a horrendously ugly white trash bitch with 20 children in 1 trailer by the time she's 30 is a little extreme.
_________________
BigPeeOn wrote:
Here's the deal: chemistry is the devil. Anything beyond balancing an chemical equation is black magic.
Say you had a problem with bugs in your kitchen. You had a big pile of spilled sugar in the middle of the kitchen floor, and it just kept attracting bugs. You complain to me that you've tried everything: roach motels, bait traps, hermetically sealing your house, but all to no avail since the sugar keeps attracting bugs.
I'm just going to stand there and blink in goggle-eyed amazement, wondering "Why don't you try getting rid of the sugar in the middle of the floor?"
There is always going to be a problem when a prosperous nation has a land border with a poor one (you'll note that we don't have swarms of Canucks pouring across the border, except maybe to buy cigarettes,) but why compound it by offering a vast cornucopia of free stuff that makes entry too enticing to resist? As long as this is the land of the handout, people who want handouts will come here looking for one. When you subsidize freeloading you can't complain about freeloaders, domestic or imported.
tom, the only way to get rid of illegal aliens is to get rid of the cheap labor problem. Let me define the cheap labor problem. Labor in the US is expensive. Manpower is the single highest business expense for most businesses. That's why robots have replaced many factory workers in the auto industry, etc. That means that anybody who is willing to work for less is more likely to get hired - they can't hire americans who would want minimum wage, so they hire illegal aliens to do the job.
The only way to fix that is to make labor not so expensive. Do you know why labor is so expensive? Part of it is the minimum wage, although inflation will cause the price of living to increase to the point that the minimum wage is in equilibrium with the workforce again. The most important reason that manpower is so expensive is scarcity. That's right.
The government in fact pays a large portion of the workforce to stay home and watch cable TV. The majority of those are the unskilled labor that should be harvesting fruit, mowing lawns, and packing chickens into Tyson boxes. If we quit letting those people freeload off our wages, they'd have to get their own jobs. Get rid of minimum wage, and they'd work for less.
I can hear you saying that they couldn't survive on that money. They sure could if they didn't buy that Motorola RAZR with the 10000 minute plan and a dozen games, if they cancelled their cable TV subscription, stopped paying for Everquest and World of Warcraft, stopped buying lotto tickets, bought rice/beans/bread/potatos/beef instead of Little Debbie/Mountain Dew/Doritos/Hungry Man frozen dinners.
You get rid of freeloader support programs, and they'll get a job or die. Either would be fine with me. Then there wouldn't be such a demand for illegal labor. If the mexicans want to come up here and work, that's fine. But nobody should be paid to sit around and get fat watching cable TV and doing drugs.
I see the jobs as the sugar. If you keep allowing companies to hire illegal immigrants, then you will never get rid of the problem. As I said before, that is the #1 reason they come (supply and demand). If you hold buisnesses accountable, then they have no incentive to cross the border. Also, ditto on what was said above about the typical illegal. I'd wager that long term, they end up putting more into the system then they get out of it, but official unbiased stats are pretty hard to come by.
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