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 Post subject: More gun control controversy...
PostPosted: Fri 10-12-2007 10:12AM 
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21197747/

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,300180,00.html

I would love to see every teacher on a campus with a firearm of some sort. Would clear all this poor-anguished-children-bringing-guns-to-school-to-prove-a-point shit up.

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PostPosted: Fri 10-12-2007 10:44AM 
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I was talking with my grandparents' friends and they used to take guns to school all the time back in the 50s. They would openly take rifles on the bus, store them in their locker, and go shooting afterwards. Utah already allows teachers to carry and they are doing just fine.

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 Post subject: Re: More gun control controversy...
PostPosted: Fri 10-12-2007 11:08AM 
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LuvMyTreefrogs wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21197747/

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,300180,00.html

I would love to see every teacher on a campus with a firearm of some sort. Would clear all this poor-anguished-children-bringing-guns-to-school-to-prove-a-point shit up.


No no, not EVERY teacher, only those who pass a firearms safety course (and for carrying at school, I would even be in favor of a cop style training course...)

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PostPosted: Fri 10-12-2007 11:22AM 
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Actually, Utah allows anyone with a carry permit to carry. In fact, they PROHIBIT schools from having rules against carry on campus.

Virginia allows carry on campus by anyone, LICENSED OR NOT! But some schools have a rule against it - enforceable only by school policy, and it was that school policy that kept guns out of the good guys hands and didn't do a thing to stop Cho.

Indiana allows carry in colleges.

In fact, many states have no law against carrying on a college campus, but Utah is the only one which prohibits campus from making rules against it.

Notably, there have been no mass shootings in places where concealed firearms are common - the few that have tried, have been shot.

Am I saying that we should allow pistols on campus? No. We should allow all guns, including pistols and rifles, on campus. It was students and professors who had deer rifles with them on campus that kept Charles Whitman's head down, and kept him from killing any more people than he did.

One student at the time, Art Eatman, says "At Rotary meeting the week after the shooting, Col. Homer Garrison, then head of Texas' Department of Public Safety, told my father that had it not been for civilian deer-rifle ground fire, Whitman could have been up there until his water gave out. The ground fire forced him away from control of the access door through which the police got onto the observation deck." This is from one of the personal accounts he wrote after the incident.(source)

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PostPosted: Fri 10-12-2007 11:25AM 
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Yeah, there are plenty of teachers who are too stupid to safely handle a gun, or fly off the handle. The current system of CCW pretty much keeps them away (you have to first WANT to carry a gun, and be WILLING to kill someone to protect yourself/another, then you have to pass a test on the law of both carrying and using the gun, and pass a shooting test where the instructor will FAIL you if you do one safety violation). I don't think any training is needed above and beyond a CCW license.

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PostPosted: Sat 10-13-2007 8:38AM 
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I admit I was thinking of the movie Hot Fuzz when I said "every" - part of me was thinking of a holdout in the middle of my high school. Of course, not what we want to happen in real life, but I can imagine the four-foot 70 year old teachers and the 95-lb art instructors with AK-47s with a "THIS IS SPARTAAA!" look on their faces - and it's beautiful.

Seriously, though, teachers all have to submit background checks so at least we wouldn't have a bunch of felons with handguns in their desks...

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PostPosted: Tue 10-16-2007 7:39AM 
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I would love to be able to walk to class every day with an assault rifle strapped across my shoulder over my backpack.

I would also love it if such a sight wouldn't instill a feeling of fear in everyone that saw it. This would be a much better environment if when people saw something like that, the first thing that they thought would be, "If the shit hits the fan, I want to be behind THAT guy."

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PostPosted: Tue 10-16-2007 8:42AM 
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ShadowCat38 wrote:
I would love to be able to walk to class every day with an assault rifle strapped across my shoulder over my backpack.

I would also love it if such a sight wouldn't instill a feeling of fear in everyone that saw it. This would be a much better environment if when people saw something like that, the first thing that they thought would be, "If the shit hits the fan, I want to be behind THAT guy."


The first step in doing that is to normalize the concept of carrying a gun. Oleg Volk does a lot of art work towards that idea (his website here and his blog here). To do that, you need trusted people carrying guns in a public capacity. Not just cops, but non-police citizens. Someone people would look to as a leader naturally, with or without a gun. Until people get to the point that an otherwise normal-looking guy with a rifle walking across campus would cause no alarm.

Of course, to do that, it would have to be legal (well, as long as it isn't hunting season, it WOULD be legal in many states - but just try it and see what happens!). And for it to get legal, it would have to have wide public support. And for it to have wide public support, the public would have to be exposed to it...

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PostPosted: Tue 10-16-2007 10:01AM 
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the naked prophet wrote:
To do that, you need trusted people carrying guns in a public capacity. Not just cops, but non-police citizens. Someone people would look to as a leader naturally, with or without a gun. Until people get to the point that an otherwise normal-looking guy with a rifle walking across campus would cause no alarm.


I think that right there is the key, and unfortunately something that I don't think will ever happen, at least not in our lifetime. I consider myself a supporter of guns rights, yet at the same time I know there are many people that I would not feel safe around knowing that they had a assault rifle strapped to their back. This is based simply on the fact that there are very few people I trust implicitly with my life, so I could only trust some random person with a gun about as much as I trust any random idiot in a car on the road. Just the same as getting a drivers license doesn't make a person a safe driver, getting a license to carry a gun doesn't make a person safe with a gun.


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PostPosted: Tue 10-16-2007 10:02AM 
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Just pray that the Hildebeest isn't elected next year.

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PostPosted: Tue 10-16-2007 10:32AM 
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Altaica wrote:
I think that right there is the key, and unfortunately something that I don't think will ever happen, at least not in our lifetime. I consider myself a supporter of guns rights, yet at the same time I know there are many people that I would not feel safe around knowing that they had a assault rifle strapped to their back. This is based simply on the fact that there are very few people I trust implicitly with my life, so I could only trust some random person with a gun about as much as I trust any random idiot in a car on the road. Just the same as getting a drivers license doesn't make a person a safe driver, getting a license to carry a gun doesn't make a person safe with a gun.


yet you trust those same people with a far more dangerous, erradic, and random weapon: a motor vehicle.

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PostPosted: Tue 10-16-2007 10:37AM 
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karl wrote:
Just pray that the Hildebeest isn't elected next year.


Amen to that. I have two that I think are fair, but a metric shit-tonne that I hate...

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PostPosted: Tue 10-16-2007 10:44AM 
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amd2800barton wrote:
Altaica wrote:
I think that right there is the key, and unfortunately something that I don't think will ever happen, at least not in our lifetime. I consider myself a supporter of guns rights, yet at the same time I know there are many people that I would not feel safe around knowing that they had a assault rifle strapped to their back. This is based simply on the fact that there are very few people I trust implicitly with my life, so I could only trust some random person with a gun about as much as I trust any random idiot in a car on the road. Just the same as getting a drivers license doesn't make a person a safe driver, getting a license to carry a gun doesn't make a person safe with a gun.


yet you trust those same people with a far more dangerous, erradic, and random weapon: a motor vehicle.


Did you even read my post?


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PostPosted: Tue 10-16-2007 10:53AM 
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Altaica wrote:

I think that right there is the key, and unfortunately something that I don't think will ever happen, at least not in our lifetime. I consider myself a supporter of guns rights, yet at the same time I know there are many people that I would not feel safe around knowing that they had a assault rifle strapped to their back. This is based simply on the fact that there are very few people I trust implicitly with my life, so I could only trust some random person with a gun about as much as I trust any random idiot in a car on the road. Just the same as getting a drivers license doesn't make a person a safe driver, getting a license to carry a gun doesn't make a person safe with a gun.



I think that requirements for a license to carry a firearm are more stringent than those for operating a motor vehicle. I don't know about you all, but I probably could've passed my driver's test hammered drunk.


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PostPosted: Tue 10-16-2007 11:14AM 
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Altaica wrote:
Did you even read my post?


yes, however i would presume that if you did not trust those idiots with drivers licenses you would be considerably more outspoken against them.

idiots can get drivers licenses. idiots can always get guns. its allowing people to carry without having to take it up the ass from a nosy public that will keep those idiots who get guns from getting a chance to use them.

the only concern that i would have is that if i were conceal carrying, and was in a situation where i had to protect myself: in the confusion, it might be hard to for police to tell who the crazed madman is, and who the upstanding citizen is.

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