_________________ And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth unto Thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
Post subject: Re: Anti-Union Group Offers 'Worst' Teachers $10G to Quit
Posted: Mon 03-17-2008 7:10PM
bertowned
Joined: Sun 08-20-2006 4:26PM Posts: 2118
Source: Off Campus
I had a number of very good teachers in HS. They hated that they were forced into the union. I remember my AP US history teacher once saying (sarcastically) "I have a masters degree, but somehow I am too stupid to negotiate my salary, so some union official is kind enough to keep it nice and low for me". Seriously - teachers unions let bad teachers stay, and hurt good teachers because it makes it difficult for them to get a decent pay raise.
_________________
BigPeeOn wrote:
Here's the deal: chemistry is the devil. Anything beyond balancing an chemical equation is black magic.
I had the same experience... in HS I had excellent teachers because I was in advanced classes (IB, AP, whatever). They all disliked the administration that forced them set aside weeks to teach the MAP test, they were all very good in their subjects, and they were very good teachers. I had friends in other comparable classes, but non-IB/AP and they would complain that their teachers sucked and either didn't know what they were doing or were very bad at teaching. Somehow you'd have to factor in that it's possible that they weren't as good of students, and that would lead them to believe their teachers sucked, but generally the poor students in the classes with good teachers kept up and thought the teachers were awesome, so I dunno.
Anyways, teachers unions are pretty lame - once a teacher gets tenure it seems that in general, they stop caring. I know multiple times throughout my junior high / highschool years I'd have older teachers say (non-jokingly) that they didn't care that what they were doing was against the rules or unreasonable - they couldn't be fired because of it. I don't know if tenure is related to unions, but that's another part of the teaching system that I don't like. If you're good at your job, you shouldn't have any trouble keeping it; your seniority should not matter more than your ability to teach and perform well in your job when raises/hiring/firing are considered.
</rant>
PS, my best teacher was a UMR grad from the 70's I'd guess, he wore his St. Pat's green and told some sweet Rolla stories around this time of year... lol.
_________________ I have now been banned three times. Join the club
Post subject: Re: Anti-Union Group Offers 'Worst' Teachers $10G to Quit
Posted: Tue 03-18-2008 9:39AM
Sergeant
Joined: Tue 01-23-2007 1:21PM Posts: 39 Location: 4 North
Source: MST-PSK Wireless
In any other job, if you suck at it, you'll get fired; its how the workforce becomes more specialized. This doesn't seem to happen as much in teaching due to tenure and unions. Perhaps this method of "weeding out" bad labor is good.
Post subject: Re: Anti-Union Group Offers 'Worst' Teachers $10G to Quit
Posted: Tue 03-18-2008 7:20PM
pwned by heretic
Joined: Sun 09-19-2004 4:41PM Posts: 755 Location: The Buffalo Barn
Source: Off Campus
meh.
i have yet to have a really bad teacher, throughout high school I had awesome teachers, and this school does have quite a few gems. Also, the scandavian schools are generally considered some of the best, and they are not what one would call anti-union. I just dont see how you can look at america getting lazier or dumber or whatever and place the blame on unions. It may play a minor role, but I not a major one.
Post subject: Re: Anti-Union Group Offers 'Worst' Teachers $10G to Quit
Posted: Wed 04-02-2008 10:21AM
Colonel
Joined: Sun 08-20-2006 5:50PM Posts: 711 Location: the darkest pits of hell
Source: TJ North
Would teachers be hurt by leaving the Union though? Not gonna lie, I'm not educated on this matter, but it seems to me that it would give the administration free reign to stomp on teachers' rights. Thoughts?
_________________ "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is."
Post subject: Re: Anti-Union Group Offers 'Worst' Teachers $10G to Quit
Posted: Wed 04-02-2008 10:42AM
Brigadier General
Joined: Fri 01-24-2003 7:13PM Posts: 1652 Location: down the hill
Source: MST-WPA Wireless
calculusninja wrote:
Would teachers be hurt by leaving the Union though? Not gonna lie, I'm not educated on this matter, but it seems to me that it would give the administration free reign to stomp on teachers' rights. Thoughts?
Nobody knows. As far as I can tell, all public schools require all teachers to be union members. At least that's how it's been in all the public schools I've attended, looked at teaching, or my relatives have taught or looked for jobs.
_________________ heretic^ stars as Samuel Jackson in the summer's newest thriller: Owls on a Forum!
I had the same experience... in HS I had excellent teachers because I was in advanced classes (IB, AP, whatever). They all disliked the administration that forced them set aside weeks to teach the MAP test, they were all very good in their subjects, and they were very good teachers. I had friends in other comparable classes, but non-IB/AP and they would complain that their teachers sucked and either didn't know what they were doing or were very bad at teaching. Somehow you'd have to factor in that it's possible that they weren't as good of students, and that would lead them to believe their teachers sucked, but generally the poor students in the classes with good teachers kept up and thought the teachers were awesome, so I dunno.
Anyways, teachers unions are pretty lame - once a teacher gets tenure it seems that in general, they stop caring. I know multiple times throughout my junior high / highschool years I'd have older teachers say (non-jokingly) that they didn't care that what they were doing was against the rules or unreasonable - they couldn't be fired because of it. I don't know if tenure is related to unions, but that's another part of the teaching system that I don't like. If you're good at your job, you shouldn't have any trouble keeping it; your seniority should not matter more than your ability to teach and perform well in your job when raises/hiring/firing are considered.
</rant>
PS, my best teacher was a UMR grad from the 70's I'd guess, he wore his St. Pat's green and told some sweet Rolla stories around this time of year... lol.
I had mostly very good teachers, too. However, my Physics teacher was a pedo and didn't know a damned thing about Physics. He even taught english on the side at night at a community college. All he did was tell us hunting stories and stare at the girls in the front row [as long as the girls sat in the front row and wore short skirts nearly daily they got A's]. He would even invite them to join him after class in his back room which had a couch and a blanket and stuff in it for...stuff. Anyway, point is. He had tenure that would expire in 3 years [2 years now]. He said he was going to try to keep teaching there. Even though he literally knew nothing of how Physics worked. And he'll be able to since no one else will take his spot.
My point however is that even though he was a horrible teacher, there was no one else to take his place. We have a shortage of teachers right now and paying teachers to quit is just a bad idea--even if they suck face.
Post subject: Re: Anti-Union Group Offers 'Worst' Teachers $10G to Quit
Posted: Wed 04-02-2008 1:28PM
Lieutenant
Joined: Mon 08-15-2005 10:45PM Posts: 60
Source: TJ South
Bah, Unions are a very French concept of freedom. Irregardless of whether teachers might be squashed if they are not Union it seems very UnAmerican to me to have a right to unionize but not a right to waive that right. But then you get into utilitarianism arguments which are also quite UnAmerican.
Post subject: Re: Anti-Union Group Offers 'Worst' Teachers $10G to Quit
Posted: Wed 04-02-2008 3:43PM
bertowned
Joined: Sun 08-20-2006 4:26PM Posts: 2118
Source: Off Campus
seriously. I wouldn't hate unions so much if they were optional. I really don't understand how this "the whole shop goes union" bullshit flies. It just doesn't make sense. If there were something magically better about being in the union, then they shouldn't FORCE people to join them (just to keep Union bosses employed & in power).
_________________
BigPeeOn wrote:
Here's the deal: chemistry is the devil. Anything beyond balancing an chemical equation is black magic.
Post subject: Re: Anti-Union Group Offers 'Worst' Teachers $10G to Quit
Posted: Wed 04-02-2008 7:29PM
Drowning
Joined: Sun 08-15-2004 9:36PM Posts: 4957 Location: ~~~~\o/~~~~~
Source: VPN
I can see the point for some unions. I worked for kroger and was forced into the union. Our union rep made $80k a year, he didnt know a goddamn thing, and the union wasnt even focused on helping us out. In fact our contract was 3 years expired.
The UAW is most of the reason why US car market is in the shitter. Living around the detroit area there are major impacts because of this. Vote for right to work.
Post subject: Re: Anti-Union Group Offers 'Worst' Teachers $10G to Quit
Posted: Wed 04-02-2008 10:39PM
Lieutenant
Joined: Mon 08-15-2005 10:45PM Posts: 60
Source: TJ South
benm wrote:
How is utilitarianism unamerican? Seems like americans don't give a damn about the means, just the ends.
It pays to stay awake during history class. Do you see any difference between the concept of freedom as set forth in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution as opposed to a government operating on utilitarianism?
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