_________________ And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth unto Thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
Last edited by mwsgh6 on Thu 06-26-2008 4:00PM, edited 1 time in total.
Post subject: Re: Supreme Court Upholds Second Amendment
Posted: Sun 06-29-2008 2:14AM
Colonel
Joined: Sun 08-20-2006 5:50PM Posts: 711 Location: the darkest pits of hell
Source: Off Campus
So what, now DC is going to have a lot of very small individual "well-regulated militias" eh? You know, in case King George and his cronies sneak up the Potomac, as was the fear when the amendment was made in 1791. Or in case the national government takes a poke at our state's sovereignty.
I guess this will inspire the gun lobby to pump some more cash into the republicans' pockets. yay.
_________________ "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is."
Post subject: Re: Supreme Court Upholds Second Amendment
Posted: Sun 06-29-2008 2:05PM
bertowned
Joined: Sun 08-20-2006 4:26PM Posts: 2118
Source: Off Campus
calculusninja wrote:
So what, now DC is going to have a lot of very small individual "well-regulated militias" eh? You know, in case King George and his cronies sneak up the Potomac, as was the fear when the amendment was made in 1791. Or in case the national government takes a poke at our state's sovereignty.
I guess this will inspire the gun lobby to pump some more cash into the republicans' pockets. yay.
doesnt matter what may have been one of the reasons for the ammendment. the fact is its in the bill of rights. the constitution is the highest law. it was designed to be a long lasting document, but it is adaptable. if you have a problem with the supreme court's decision to uphold the law, bitching wont help you. get the law changed if you dont like it.
and for the record. there's a reason that the congress didn't just pass a "don't worry your guns are fine" Act of 17xx, and instead went with a more permanent means - they wanted Americans to be self reliant and able to protect themselves: from eachother, and their government. its that whole "freedom" thing. as long as you're not impeding anyone else's life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness - you're cool.
_________________
BigPeeOn wrote:
Here's the deal: chemistry is the devil. Anything beyond balancing an chemical equation is black magic.
Post subject: Re: Supreme Court Upholds Second Amendment
Posted: Sun 06-29-2008 6:45PM
Colonel
Joined: Sun 08-20-2006 5:50PM Posts: 711 Location: the darkest pits of hell
Source: Off Campus
Quote:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
amd2800barton wrote:
the fact is its in the bill of rights. the constitution is the highest law. it was designed to be a long lasting document, but it is adaptable. if you have a problem with the supreme court's decision to uphold the law, bitching wont help you. get the law changed if you dont like it.
Oh, I understand your confusion now. You think the right for civilians to carry handguns is in the constitution. I'd be fine with it if it actually were. The Supreme Court didn't uphold anything. Precedents from courts of years past have interpreted the amendment to not apply to civilian weapon possession. The conservatives on the court sneaked out a 5-4 simple majority to strike down the DC law. They upheld their own spin on the document's wording, tis all.
Quote:
as long as you're not impeding anyone else's life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness - you're cool.
That line of logic doesn't apply because the ruling only applies to handguns. You can be peaceful with the hundred other types of weaponry not allowed by law, so what? Should we all walk around with bazookas as long as we play nice?
They also struck down the law saying handguns must have trigger locks. Seriously, what?
Justice Stephen Breyer wrote:
"There simply is no untouchable constitutional right guaranteed by the Second Amendment to keep loaded handguns in the house in crime-ridden urban areas.”
_________________ "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is."
Post subject: Re: Supreme Court Upholds Second Amendment
Posted: Mon 06-30-2008 3:44PM
Colonel
Joined: Sun 08-20-2006 5:50PM Posts: 711 Location: the darkest pits of hell
Source: Off Campus
The Supreme Court as it stands does not appear to me as the end-all authority on the law that it should be. Sure, it is defined in such a way, but the bench has become ridiculously politicized. And surprise surprise that a very conservative Justice appointed by Reagan formed the majority opinion, and two of Bush's appointees joined him.
The 5-4 split of conservatives and liberals does not speak "Constitutional authority" to me. It speaks of personal political opinion on both sides and I don't buy it. I read the portion of the majority opinion related to the wording of the document. It's not convincing enough to throw out and overturn precedents for. And the disagreement on the part of 4 Justices, DC Petitioners, and the DC Mayor only furthers this doubt.
My point is that the ruling is suspect. Yes, I know you guys favor guns, so feel free to dismiss my opinion as nonsense (haha ) and go back to sleep, but I think we all can agree that the Constitution is quite unclear in its intentions.
I found this somewhere. The 2nd amendment should read:
Quote:
"The right of the people to keep but not necessarily bear some but not all kinds of arms in public (and certainly not in all public spaces) shall not be infringed, though by that we don't mean that guns can't be regulated in many ways."
_________________ "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is."
but I think we all can agree that the Constitution is quite unclear in its intentions.
No, I think it's pretty clear. If the 2nd were talking about a collective right, it would be the only mention of a collective right among the first 10. Every amendment in the first 10 either asserts individual rights, or places a limit on the government power.
This, of course, completely ignores the 9th and 10th, which the founders intended to be a "catch all" but have since been turned into "catch very little".
Post subject: Re: Supreme Court Upholds Second Amendment
Posted: Mon 06-30-2008 8:12PM
Colonel
Joined: Sun 08-20-2006 5:50PM Posts: 711 Location: the darkest pits of hell
Source: Off Campus
Uh, battalion, did you read that? It's some libertarian complaining that Scalia placed limits on this newfound interpretation of the 2nd amendment. For anarchists I suppose this is a "non-defeat and not a victory" as the article implies. Of course he did!
If he had said that the 2nd amendment allows for all arms and no licensing (something I assume libertarians want in theory?) people would crap themselves. It's the 21st century folks, not the wild west.
article wrote:
It is true that Heller is not, in itself, a defeat for freedom-loving forces who do not wish to see law-abiding citizens forcibly disarmed by the state. Had the decision gone the other way – and it is deeply troubling that four justices saw fit to invent a fictitious collective rights interpretation – then Heller would have been a terrible defeat for those who still believe the U.S. Constitution is more than just another piece of paper. (it goes on and on...)
The four justices it speaks of were only drawing upon every other supreme court ruling in history. Meh, whatever. And zkissane, why mention the militia at all then? The militia is most certainly a collective entity, no?
I love debating on forums
_________________ "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is."
_________________ And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth unto Thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
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