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 Post subject: State of our Economy?
PostPosted: Mon 09-29-2008 8:49PM 
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What are your guys thoughts about everything in the news?

Today the bailout plan didn't go through and Dow dropped something like 770 points (6-7%) I'm not really up to playing the blame game here. I understand why they want this bailout plan and it's a good reason but has anyone thought of the costs of this?

700 Billion / 350 Million citizens = $2,000 a person (counting children, elderly and the lazy)

Now what really upsets me is that this $$$ would have been better spent paying for a way out of our Energy crisis or towards schools. Any possible number of things but its needed entirely to prevent a immediate massive move towards the seemingly unstoppable depression of our age.

Honestly I'm not sure what we should do? Should we do it and buy us time or will this just be something that will be overshadowed by something even larger 2-4 months from now?

Personally I think there would be some massive consequences to this bailout. Already many other banks are saying that they should be included in any bailout plan because its not fair to bailout the worst companies and leaving the rest to eat their losses. Personally, i say that's life but we all know that people want handouts and in the end I'm sure that everyone will get something from this but will it be those of us that are paying for this? The American Citizens?

I'm interested in hearing what others may be thinking? Angles that I haven't seen yet on this kind of thing. Other kinds of solutions that would help out?

I'm not usually interested in these kinds of things but I think that something that would really help the situation would be if the US govt passed a bill to allow people to dip into their 401k's or retirement funds without any penalties or taxes to pay towards their mortgages. Many people here would rather see their savings go towards something now then to watch or worry about what could happen. I know there are several people who are getting foreclosed too who don't want to fall on their 401k's because they'll lose 25-30% in fines and penalties. I know it's not a solution but it's something simple that can be done to help some people who are really hurting for better choices right now.


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 Post subject: Re: State of our Economy?
PostPosted: Mon 09-29-2008 9:18PM 
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Its the boldest statement of socialism.

This is what happens in an unfree market, things get put in place to "help the little guy" aka "bash big business" you know the ones that make the country money. We have to be "fair" after all. When all these things start skewing the market, destroys the dollar, then you need to bailout what you fucked up by printing more money.

So what should we do now? How about dumping money into the problem into a system that is top heavy. How about universal health care.

Its not the governments job to be anywhere near the economy other then to protect it from itself.

fuck fair, fuck the enviroment, and fuck liberals if you want the market to work again

sorry, its sad that it took this for people to realize. It will probably keep going.

/rant

As to a solution, electing a conservative president would be a good start, too bad none are up for election this term.

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 Post subject: Re: State of our Economy?
PostPosted: Mon 09-29-2008 9:35PM 
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What caused all of the problems we're seeing now?

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 Post subject: Re: State of our Economy?
PostPosted: Mon 09-29-2008 9:42PM 
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I just nom nom nom'd this: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/29/ ... index.html

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 Post subject: Re: State of our Economy?
PostPosted: Mon 09-29-2008 9:55PM 
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really good article

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 Post subject: Re: State of our Economy?
PostPosted: Mon 09-29-2008 10:31PM 
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This problem started many years ago at the beginning of the housing boom. It was an exact mirror image of the internet boom, except this one was a bit more severe since it had a lot more money involved.

As for the bill, I am thankful it was shot down. The last thing the economy needs is more government interference. that has also added to the problem. Government handouts that prevent companies that make bad decisions from going bankrupt or leaving business results in those business existing to make more bad decisions (and be a bit more ballsy about it to, since they now know the government will bail them out).

The economy has too much money in it. This "collapse" of the trade market by 7% will effectively solve part of that problem.

If you want to take a look at why the bailout plan wouldn't work, look at the Bank of Japan. They have been injecting money (trillions of yen, or billions of dollars) into their economy daily, and to no avail. The best they have achieved so far is the delay of the inevitable.

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 Post subject: Re: State of our Economy?
PostPosted: Tue 09-30-2008 12:14AM 
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Time to apply for jobs in Canada and Europe.

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 Post subject: Re: State of our Economy?
PostPosted: Tue 09-30-2008 2:47AM 
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The mainstream media is of course crying their eyes out about it and everyone is saying that the economy is crashing and burning. Maybe from way up there on Wall Street where all the rich people who manipulated the market to this point, yes, it does kind of look like things are starting to flame up a little. Then they scream panic and claim that they need 0.7 trillion dollars to "save the economy" when they really want all that money to save themselves. While they're roasting in flames, I'll just keep plugging away at a degree because while everyone is screaming bloody hell, no one in the news ever seems to look on the bright side of life because it doesn't sell papers. Home prices are dropping right back to match the inflation rate before the Community Reinvestment Act started all this subprime mortgage nonsense so houses won't be half a million by the time we graduate. I know it will be tougher to get a loan since bankers are frightened by the thought of giving a loan to a falling housing market, but they'll get over it when they really need the money. So no, I'm not about to fork over $2,000 to a bunch of fat Wall Street pricks to "save the economy" when in reality, it's one of the few times in life where it's pretty much the greedy bastards that are hurting.

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 Post subject: Re: State of our Economy?
PostPosted: Tue 09-30-2008 8:33AM 
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You have to look at the reason subprime loans were given out in the first place. Interest rates were so incredibly low after 9/11/01 that the government was encouraging people to buy shit to dump money back in the economy. The problem was the housing appraisers and debt rating agencies got slack in their duties so what is now thought of sub prime was then still given A ratings and people were mortgaging their houses for way more than they were worth so when the rates came back and all these ARM and entry level rates all changed people got screwed because their payments went up so high that they were forced to foreclose. The problem is by the time this happened all the sub prime debt had been repackaged with not so sub prime debt, ranked as secure, and sold up the chain effectively hiding the risk of it all.

In this situation it seems clear that government did not provide a means of oversight for their actions of lowering the interest rates so low. Essentially the government made it very easy for these financial giants to make money by allowing their assets to be so liquid. Ultimately it is the fault of anyone who bought sub prime debt packages but it seems that the problem wouldn't be nearly as bad if the government didn't have their foot blindly on the pedal trying to boost spending after 9/11.

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 Post subject: Re: State of our Economy?
PostPosted: Tue 09-30-2008 9:24AM 
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benm wrote:
What caused all of the problems we're seeing now?


Bill Clinton wanted poor people on government assistance to be able to buy houses. Under his direction, congress passed a bill that required banks to count government assistance (welfare, food stamps, etc.) as income for purposes of getting a home loan, and forced banks to accept those loans. Those are exactly the same people who are now defaulting on all those home loans - the home loans that were sold as "investments" to lots of companies.

Passing the "bailout bill" will only encourage more companies to approve bad loans - after all, they know they won't be on the hook for the money if the lendee doesn't pay it back. I think congress knows this (or at least those in charge do) and they plan to do a bigger, more complete buyout when it gets worse as it inevitably will. The government will outright own all financial institutions in the US. I'm convinced that most Republicans and nearly all Democrats are actually socialists - their opinions only differ on superficial issues like gay marriage and abortion.

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 Post subject: Re: State of our Economy?
PostPosted: Tue 09-30-2008 9:50AM 
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 Post subject: Re: State of our Economy?
PostPosted: Tue 09-30-2008 9:52AM 
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I do believe that the FED pumped ~700 bil. dollars into the markets yesterday anyway to try to save face. It didn't really do squat though.

I think that a major part of the bill that was a problem was the part where the 'established committee' would not be subject to any court of law for their decisions.

The 700 bil. bailout plan was really just the beginning and that 700 bil. would have ACTUALLY totaled nearly 3 trillion dollars after some time.

Based upon my knowledge from the sources on another forum I frequent.


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 Post subject: Re: State of our Economy?
PostPosted: Tue 09-30-2008 11:44AM 
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I got a good education from a decent school (despite any name changes). I got a degree in an in-demand field. I got a good job. I lived with my parents for a while, saving money. I still drive the same car that I bought when I was a sophomore at UMR, more than 8 years ago. When I bought my house, I deliberately understated my income to the bank during the pre-approval process, and I put 30% down. My mortgage, property taxes and insurance are less than 1/3 of my take home pay.

And these Congressional assholes want me to bail out bankers who thought the sky would never fall? Let them starve in the street. They want me to bail out people who bought more house than they could afford? Foreclose on their asses. Then hang every fucker in Congress, 7 at a time, from the spires of the crown on the Statue of Liberty. Then put their bodies on display in front of the Capitol, along with Virginia's state flag, as a reminder to the replacement Congress.


Last edited by zkissane on Tue 09-30-2008 11:50AM, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: State of our Economy?
PostPosted: Tue 09-30-2008 11:49AM 
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zkissane wrote:
I got a good education from a decent school (despite any name changes). I got a degree in an in-demand field. I got a good job. I lived with my parents for a while, saving money. I still drive the same car that I bought when I was a sophomore at UMR, more than 8 years ago. When I bought my house, I deliberately understated my income to the bank during the pre-approval process, and I put 30% down. My mortgage, property taxes and insurance are less than 1/3 of my take home pay.

And these Congressional assholes want me to bail out bankers who thought the sky would never fall? Let them starve in the street. They want me to bail out people who bought more house than they could afford? Foreclose on their asses. Then hang every fucker in Congress, 7 at a time, from the spires of the crown on the Statue of Liberty. Start with the two assholes running for President, but hang all 535 of them. Then put their bodies on display in front of the Capitol, along with Virginia's state flag, as a reminder to the replacement Congress.


That's a plan I can get behind.

How long til you're old enough to be president?

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 Post subject: Re: State of our Economy?
PostPosted: Tue 09-30-2008 11:54AM 
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Oh, just to clarify, and cover my ass:

The hanging should be done after we pass a law making tyranny a capital offense, for which the only punishment is hanging. Then we should convict each Congresscritter of tyranny.

I don't advocate mob action.

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