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 Post subject: Re: Gun control
PostPosted: Mon 11-10-2008 3:31PM 
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no because you're probably going to go downstairs assuming this is a 2 story house. If it's just a 1 story house... Well most that I've seen have all the rooms next to each other. So if you're shooting away from your room you're probably shooting away from the other ones as well.

Fire away.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun control
PostPosted: Mon 11-10-2008 3:39PM 
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buy a shotgun

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 Post subject: Re: Gun control
PostPosted: Mon 11-10-2008 6:06PM 
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benm wrote:
the naked prophet wrote:
In the middle of the night, when you're awakened by the sound of breaking glass, and have adrenaline flooding through your bloodstream, it's dark, the other guy is moving and shooting at you... you're not going to be a very good shot no matter how much you practice. You're gonna want as much ammo as you can reasonably have on hand, to maximize your chance of survival. You want a "high-capacity magazine" in a gun designed for killing.


So when you bust out your high capacity assault rifle with armor piercing bullets, you're not at all concerned for the members of your family who you're going to shoot through the walls?


Usually, high capacity assault rifles are best for long range open shooting. Just try walking around a small tight house with a 4 foot pole in front of you without bumping the wall. It can be done though with practice and there are some that prefer it in an indoor scenario while, as others have mentioned, short shotguns loaded with non-penetrating shot are best as they are less likely to travel through walls. Of course short barreled shotguns are illegal even though they would be a good choice in this scenario but that's another story.

Where those "high capacity assault rifles" showed their ultimate use I think is 1992. The Korean district was getting hit hard by thugs. They were getting looted and killed like crazy and the cops were no where to be seen for days. The store owners organized and using their assault rifles fended off attackers. Now if you are being swamped by a pack of 100 attackers truly bent on killing you just because you are Korean, how many times would you think is fair to reload? Once? Twice? Ten Times? Of course we all know that reloading is simple. Just pull out a magazine and put in another. It can't be that hard. Reloading in less than 3 seconds or facing certain death is another story.

1992 was so long ago and it was a one time thing. We probably won't face that situation again in our lifetime. 2005 New Orleans?

Some more food for thought:

If we only need 10 rounds at a time, why don't cops want that restriction on themselves?

Why do some cops (I have personally spoken to said cops) think the 10 round rule is bullshit? If it is for their safety, why would they be opposed to it?

Why do predominantly high profile chiefs of police (who haven't seen real patrol work for years) that are politically appointed by mayors of large cities agree with the mayors on this legislation and want the ban while the opinions of smaller police forces or of low ranking officers on the street are never heard or publicized?

Another problem is the stigma of "assault weapons." Just about everyone who gets a permit to carry a weapon shits their pants when they actually do it for the first time. They are afraid they are doing something wrong but then realize they are doing nothing of the sort. They are breaking no laws or hurting anyone, yet they are trained to think that carrying a gun around in the open public is absolutely horrible. Most realize this mental training is ingrained brainwashing bullshit and get right over it because no one ever knows and they never have a problem since no one else ever knows.

Just owning an assault rifle still has a stigma attached to it, let alone carrying one around in public. Take Israel for example as a little test

Image

What was the first thing that caught your attention? I'm guessing for most it was the rifles because it's an unusual thing in public. The ridiculously hot girls probably came in far second even when shown to a populace deprived of ridiculously hot girls. What probably came in third is what I think is most unusual. The guy behind the counter. He's not screaming in fear or hiding in the corner. He's just making ice cream for three girls that came into his shop. Until we no longer fear objects that have no reason in and of themselves to be feared, we will naturally want to ban them.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun control
PostPosted: Mon 11-10-2008 6:26PM 
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police officers around here have one in the gun and two extra, some have shotguns in the trunk. If you are talking about 10 rounds per clip, that really isnt that big of a deal because like you said switching mags takes 3 seconds. If you have to fire more than 30 rounds you should probably have called back up awhile ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun control
PostPosted: Mon 11-10-2008 6:27PM 
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Agentzak wrote:
Just owning an assault rifle still has a stigma attached to it, let alone carrying one around in public. Take Israel for example as a little test

What was the first thing that caught your attention? I'm guessing for most it was the rifles because it's an unusual thing in public. The ridiculously hot girls probably came in far second even when shown to a populace deprived of ridiculously hot girls. What probably came in third is what I think is most unusual. The guy behind the counter. He's not screaming in fear or hiding in the corner. He's just making ice cream for three girls that came into his shop. Until we no longer fear objects that have no reason in and of themselves to be feared, we will naturally want to ban them.


Hrm... I see your point. But I don't see even moderately hot girls in da pic :(

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 Post subject: Re: Gun control
PostPosted: Mon 11-10-2008 6:32PM 
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I thought they were hot because they had guns

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 Post subject: Re: Gun control
PostPosted: Mon 11-10-2008 6:34PM 
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But is it hot only because not everyone has big guns?

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 Post subject: Re: Gun control
PostPosted: Mon 11-10-2008 6:40PM 
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either way there are much better pictures of Israeli military chicks that are smoking hot and really big guns

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 Post subject: Re: Gun control
PostPosted: Mon 11-10-2008 7:02PM 
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benm wrote:
the naked prophet wrote:
In the middle of the night, when you're awakened by the sound of breaking glass, and have adrenaline flooding through your bloodstream, it's dark, the other guy is moving and shooting at you... you're not going to be a very good shot no matter how much you practice. You're gonna want as much ammo as you can reasonably have on hand, to maximize your chance of survival. You want a "high-capacity magazine" in a gun designed for killing.


So when you bust out your high capacity assault rifle with armor piercing bullets, you're not at all concerned for the members of your family who you're going to shoot through the walls?


That's why choosing ammunition is important. They do make soft point and hollow point bullets that are designed specifically not to penetrate walls or multiple people. Personally, I have #4 buckshot in my home defense shotgun, and Winchester Super-X or Wolf Mil Classic JHP in the AK (both are supposed to fragment on drywall). And armor piercing ammo is generally illegal anyway (sure would have helped Mark Allen Wilson).

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 Post subject: Re: Gun control
PostPosted: Mon 11-10-2008 7:07PM 
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LostBoyz wrote:
police officers around here have one in the gun and two extra, some have shotguns in the trunk. If you are talking about 10 rounds per clip, that really isnt that big of a deal because like you said switching mags takes 3 seconds. If you have to fire more than 30 rounds you should probably have called back up awhile ago.



And who do you call for backup when you run out of ammo? What was that? You don't have a dozen cops (with guns) on the other end of a radio, just waiting for your call?

Seems logical to me that citizens have a greater need for high capacity magazines than cops do.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun control
PostPosted: Mon 11-10-2008 7:11PM 
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the naked prophet wrote:
benm wrote:
the naked prophet wrote:
In the middle of the night, when you're awakened by the sound of breaking glass, and have adrenaline flooding through your bloodstream, it's dark, the other guy is moving and shooting at you... you're not going to be a very good shot no matter how much you practice. You're gonna want as much ammo as you can reasonably have on hand, to maximize your chance of survival. You want a "high-capacity magazine" in a gun designed for killing.


So when you bust out your high capacity assault rifle with armor piercing bullets, you're not at all concerned for the members of your family who you're going to shoot through the walls?


That's why choosing ammunition is important. They do make soft point and hollow point bullets that are designed specifically not to penetrate walls or multiple people. Personally, I have #4 buckshot in my home defense shotgun, and Winchester Super-X or Wolf Mil Classic JHP in the AK (both are supposed to fragment on drywall). And armor piercing ammo is generally illegal anyway (sure would have helped Mark Allen Wilson).


If we shouldn't outlaw certain guns, why should we outlaw certain kinds of ammunition? You make it sound like AP bullets being illegal is normal...

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 Post subject: Re: Gun control
PostPosted: Mon 11-10-2008 7:47PM 
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benm wrote:
If we shouldn't outlaw certain guns, why should we outlaw certain kinds of ammunition? You make it sound like AP bullets being illegal is normal...


Like the short barreled shotgun, AP bullets have been banned so long and so hard that it basically is normal. As NP and I pointed out, there have been clear cases where these would've helped but were not available. Even if they were legal, you would have to use them as opposed to ammo designed for home defense that doesn't go through walls, and blatantly ignore one of the four cardinal rules of using any firearm

Always know exactly what you are shooting at and what is behind it.

If you aren't sure, don't shoot.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun control
PostPosted: Mon 11-10-2008 8:00PM 
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Agentzak wrote:
benm wrote:
If we shouldn't outlaw certain guns, why should we outlaw certain kinds of ammunition? You make it sound like AP bullets being illegal is normal...


Like the short barreled shotgun, AP bullets have been banned so long and so hard that it basically is normal. As NP and I pointed out, there have been clear cases where these would've helped but were not available. Even if they were legal, you would have to use them as opposed to ammo designed for home defense that doesn't go through walls, and blatantly ignore one of the four cardinal rules of using any firearm

Always know exactly what you are shooting at and what is behind it.

If you aren't sure, don't shoot.


So, what if the badguys are wearing kevlar?

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 Post subject: Re: Gun control
PostPosted: Mon 11-10-2008 8:09PM 
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shoot them in the face or knee

also, NP I was referring to agentzaks post about limiting the amount of rounds officers can carry. Had nothing to do with the original topic. And yes if an officer needs backup around here you will have at least 20-25 officers there in less than 5 minutes (most would be there much sooner).

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 Post subject: Re: Gun control
PostPosted: Mon 11-10-2008 8:10PM 
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LostBoyz wrote:
shoot them in the face or knee


But when they're invading your home, as NP said you won't have that great of aim no matter how good you are... Wouldn't it be best to have AP loaded just in case?

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