Post subject: Re: Clever corporate layoff strategy
Posted: Wed 06-09-2010 2:34PM
Sergeant
Joined: Wed 08-26-2009 11:05PM Posts: 24
Source: Off Campus
the naked prophet wrote:
CaptainCard wrote:
The markets normal audibility? Look at the last time we had Laisse Faire Capitalism, (late 1800s). The Robber Barons and the monopolies had hold on everything. The market could not fix itself due to inability to find a competitor AND the fact the monopolies were cheaper. The companies could do whatever they wanted because they had complete control of their market(s).
Even if we were to take your word for the way it was back then (which is dubious), today things are different.Because of the differences that government regulation did
In the 1800s both travel and information were severely limited. Today not only can you drive 100 miles to find a better/cheaper/competing store, you can order just about anything off of the internet. And you can find out everything you might want to know about the available competition to any particular company.I can find out information about anything I want from South Korean markets, to how to produce anything I want, I don't have the capital to do so.
Don't think there's enough competition? Start your own store. You say Wal-Mart sells everything cheaper than you possibly could? Sell something they don't sell - used items, high-end items, products/services that complement the cheap stuff you get at Wal-Mart or take advantage of the high traffic near a Wal-Mart (in case you didn't know, many small businesses love Wal-Mart because of the high traffic - the ones who don't love Wal-Mart are the ones trying to directly compete against that model of efficiency and bargaining power).I have nothing against Wal Mart actually. I find it a useful place in towns like Rolla.
Speaking of "Robber Barons," do you know what a Robber Baron does? A robber baron is part of the Feudal power structure, in which subjects are not free (and not called citizens) and cannot own property, only rent it from the robber baron. A robber baron steals a large percentage of the subjects income in return for "protection," ostensibly from other robber barons. But like a mob protection racket, the only protection it buys is from the robber baron who will throw the subjects in prison if they refuse to pay. Oh, and only the robber baron's guards are allowed to be armed or to use any type of force. Investopedia Says: Due to the robber barons' unethical business practices, such as the exploitation of labor, the general public typically regards these aggressive capitalists with disdain. However, some historians argue that the late-19th century entrepreneurs usually referred to as "robber barons" - including Andrew Carnegie and John D. Rockefeller - are responsible for building a large portion of the U.S.'s current economic clout, because of their large investments in burgeoning American industries. Many also went on to become high-profile philanthropists. Words gain new meanings over the years
Yeah, it sure sounds like those Robber Barons were running the monopolies back in the 1800s... wait, no, that sounds more like the government.
Anyway, it's a good thing we've got more government regulation on the health care industry now that the free market ruined it... well, the sort-of-free market... okay, the government enforced monopolies (or oligopolies) within each state and actively prevented any sort of competition, but that's the free market's fault anyway, right? No, it's Bush's fault. Or Halliburton. No, Halliburton was the hurricane machine. Damn, you liberals are confusing to follow.I don't like the Healthcare plan, I honestly don't think its going to work, because of the inability to cap costs and lower costs by collective bargaining.
Look faulty definitions, attacks on companies I didn't bring up and attacks on my perceived political leaning isn't that cute.
Post subject: Re: Clever corporate layoff strategy
Posted: Thu 06-10-2010 6:31AM
Brigadier General
Joined: Fri 01-24-2003 7:13PM Posts: 1652 Location: down the hill
Source: Fidelity
CaptainCard wrote:
Look faulty definitions, attacks on companies I didn't bring up and attacks on my perceived political leaning isn't that cute.
You brought up the nouveau-socialist term "robber barons" to describe free market capitalism. I simply provided the original definition, which more closely matches our current government than it does companies.
And the people that hate free market capitalism usually hate wal-mart and support ever-increasing regulation of everything. In any case, wal-mart is an excellent example of capitalism that both reduces prices and stimulates other businesses. I took a guess as to your political leanings; my guess may have been wrong, but my comments were not. You just aren't the windmill I was targeting.
_________________ heretic^ stars as Samuel Jackson in the summer's newest thriller: Owls on a Forum!
Post subject: Re: Clever corporate layoff strategy
Posted: Thu 06-10-2010 8:19AM
Sergeant
Joined: Wed 08-26-2009 11:05PM Posts: 24
Source: Off Campus
the naked prophet wrote:
CaptainCard wrote:
Look faulty definitions, attacks on companies I didn't bring up and attacks on my perceived political leaning isn't that cute.
You brought up the nouveau-socialist term "robber barons" to describe free market capitalism. I simply provided the original definition, which more closely matches our current government than it does companies.So you define Computer as a profession not an item? Gay as Happy not a sexual orientation? Nice meaning fool? Words change over time. (Also I can't find any references to it being a socialist term at all)
And the people that hate free market capitalism usually hate wal-mart and support ever-increasing regulation of everything. In my case just most things, the current system needs a bit of streamlining first. In any case, wal-mart is an excellent example of capitalism that both reduces prices and stimulates other businesses.Most larger businesses which many people assume (most of the time correctly) most of the money spent there is leaving the area of the store unlike a mom and pop. I took a guess as to your political leanings; my guess may have been wrong, but my comments were not. You just aren't the windmill I was targeting.
Normally when you quote someone you're attacking their arguments of them not a strawman you construct.
Post subject: Re: Clever corporate layoff strategy
Posted: Thu 06-10-2010 3:33PM
Lieutenant General
Joined: Fri 09-05-2003 10:24AM Posts: 3589 Location: Oklahoma! Where the wind comes sweeping down the p l a i n s !
Source: Fidelity
CaptainCard wrote:
Normally when you quote someone you're attacking their arguments of them not a strawman you construct.
In a flame-war, yes. In a debate containing references to outside sources, public trends, and general concensusesesusi (sp?), it is usually aimed at the ideals that the opponent represents rather than the opponent.
Don't make this debate personal and degrade it to a flame-war, I've enjoyed reading it so far...
_________________ Ever get that feeling of deja vu?
Post subject: Re: Clever corporate layoff strategy
Posted: Thu 06-10-2010 5:04PM
Sergeant
Joined: Wed 08-26-2009 11:05PM Posts: 24
Source: Off Campus
ShadowCat38 wrote:
CaptainCard wrote:
Normally when you quote someone you're attacking their arguments of them not a strawman you construct.
In a flame-war, yes. In a debate containing references to outside sources, public trends, and general concensusesesusi (sp?), it is usually aimed at the ideals that the opponent represents rather than the opponent.
Don't make this debate personal and degrade it to a flame-war, I've enjoyed reading it so far...
And he's totally utterly wrong about what I stand for? Is it a strawman then?
Post subject: Re: Clever corporate layoff strategy
Posted: Thu 06-10-2010 5:06PM
BLITZVERPWND
Joined: Wed 09-16-2009 6:52AM Posts: 608 Location: in your 802.11g stealing your internetz
Source: IT Dept
CaptainCard wrote:
(Also I can't find any references to it[Robber Barons] being a socialist term at all)
The dictionary won't tell you that, but if you pay attention, you'll notice that mostly socialists will refer to businesses as robber barons.
CaptainCard wrote:
In my case just most things, the current system needs a bit of streamlining first.
Unfortunately, it is far too late for "streamlining". This "streamlining" is what has gotten us into this mess in the first place... tweak laws, make new ones, and eventually you're proposing 2,000 page health bills and have hundreds of IRS buildings full of paper that denotes the current tax code, one too complicated for any single man to comprehend.
CaptainCard wrote:
Most larger businesses which many people assume (most of the time correctly) most of the money spent there is leaving the area of the store unlike a mom and pop.
In paralell to this train of thought, this is why we need to restructure this country back to the way it was originally made, 20% power federal, and 80% of the power lies with state and local/municipal governments. Don't like the laws in this state? Go to a state with different laws. In this way, likeminded people would gather in certain regions, making regional ballots based on representatives more accurate of the real populus.
Post subject: Re: Clever corporate layoff strategy
Posted: Thu 06-10-2010 6:10PM
Sergeant
Joined: Wed 08-26-2009 11:05PM Posts: 24
Source: Off Campus
zeroluck wrote:
CaptainCard wrote:
(Also I can't find any references to it[Robber Barons] being a socialist term at all)
The dictionary won't tell you that, but if you pay attention, you'll notice that mostly socialists will refer to businesses as robber barons. I looked up the history of the term too, but thats a bit too much work for you ain't it. Also libertarians refer to taxes as taxes! It's a libertarian word!
CaptainCard wrote:
In my case just most things, the current system needs a bit of streamlining first.
Unfortunately, it is far too late for "streamlining". This "streamlining" is what has gotten us into this mess in the first place... tweak laws, make new ones, and eventually you're proposing 2,000 page health bills and have hundreds of IRS buildings full of paper that denotes the current tax code, one too complicated for any single man to comprehend.Which is the point of Government, UI have no need to know business tax law or TARF tax credits but I need to know a 1040 form, you don't have to know the whole damn thing to use it.
CaptainCard wrote:
Most larger businesses which many people assume (most of the time correctly) most of the money spent there is leaving the area of the store unlike a mom and pop.
In paralell to this train of thought, this is why we need to restructure this country back to the way it was originally made, 20% power federal, and 80% of the power lies with state and local/municipal governments. Don't like the laws in this state? Go to a state with different laws. In this way, likeminded people would gather in certain regions, making regional ballots based on representatives more accurate of the real populus.A lot of the states are already like this, Blue states support their idea of welfare by giving their tax money to red states.
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