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How do you view the Confederate flag?
Racist symbol of prejudice and persecution 39%  39%  [ 24 ]
Historical flag of a conquered people 22%  22%  [ 14 ]
Symbol of the spirit of opposition to government 24%  24%  [ 15 ]
Other (please explain) 13%  13%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 61
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 Post subject: Confederate Flag Controversy
PostPosted: Mon 07-25-2005 6:21PM 


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What does the Confederate flag mean to you?

Many see the flag as an offensive symbol of racism and the Ku Klux Klan, while others revere the flag as a representation of the historical significance the Civil War has played in shaping America. Yet, others see the Confederate flag as an eternal symbol of rebellion against the powers that be, or even as a reminder that the wounds caused during the War for Southern Independence still fester.

I personally believe that the flag represents the last three, but it has been usurped by hate groups to further their message of white supremacy and other such drivel.


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PostPosted: Mon 07-25-2005 7:54PM 
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It doesn't matter what it means to me. You can display it and use it for any purpose you want.


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PostPosted: Mon 07-25-2005 8:36PM 
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It all depends on the people wielding the flag and the reason it's being flown.

Southerners should be able to display the Confederate flag as part of their state's heritage. But if you're flying it as a way of saying, "I hate blacks", then you're sending that message, and it's not a nice one. I'm not about to say that you shouldn't have the right to send that message. But I do reserve the right to look down upon you for sending that message.

In any case...there's no reason why people shouldn't be allowed to fly the Confederate flag if they wish. They're free to do as they wish.

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PostPosted: Mon 07-25-2005 11:19PM 
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I agree that people have the right to fly the flag, but only doing it reverently. Wearing it on a hat, leather jacket, top of an orange car, etc. seems to be the wrong way to show any of the good things of the confederate flag.

I'm not going so far as the saying "If you don't like America, then you can git out!", but I think the confederate flag carries bad feelings.

Even though I disagree with what the flag symbolizes, I'll respect and fight for your right to display it. I think that if it becomes a contreversy, both sides need to make concessions. It probably shouldnt be flown above the South Carolina Capitol, as it has a bad history there. If a portion of the population of the state feels it is offensive, they should be respected. And I know that there was a flag displayed in a window in TJ, which i agree should be allowed. If my roommate chose to hang it up, I would not fight him on it, but as soon as someone asked that I take it down, I would insist on it being taken down. I would rather my roommate not show his "rebeliousness" than have a bunch of people think I'm a racist southern KKK pig. [/i]

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PostPosted: Tue 07-26-2005 8:33AM 
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I'd say all of the above.

In the times, the northern people were just as racist as the southern. They were just upset that the southern people may be able to make a bigger profit.

The whole war was about federal power, not slavery. The framers of the constitution doomed it by saying that people have rights... then not banning slavery right there and then. By allowing slavery, they basically said that people don't really have rights, the government grants them the privelige of freedom, and can deny it to anyone it wishes - eg blacks. The whole war would have been avoided (and the subsequent explosion of federal power and abuse of human rights) if they had been consistent in the first place.

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PostPosted: Tue 07-26-2005 11:29AM 
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I equate the Confederate flag with bigotry, but not because of the Civil War.

I equate the Confederate flag with "Southern Pride". I equate "Southern Pride" with bigotry. I believe that, if you put slavery (or Jim Crow) to a whites-only vote, it would pass in states like Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and would have a better than 50% chance in Texas, Georgia, and the Carolinas.


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PostPosted: Tue 07-26-2005 11:38AM 
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zkissane wrote:
I equate the Confederate flag with bigotry, but not because of the Civil War.

I equate the Confederate flag with "Southern Pride". I equate "Southern Pride" with bigotry. I believe that, if you put slavery (or Jim Crow) to a whites-only vote, it would pass in states like Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and would have a better than 50% chance in Texas, Georgia, and the Carolinas.


I think you're wrong. It would pass only in states like New Jersey, New York, Massachussets, and Indiana. New Jersey was the last state to stop enforcing all-white city ordinances. There is little racism that I've seen in the south (but I only spent two summers there) but a lot in the north (I've been to two of the formerly all-white cities in the north - there's still enough racism to make one vomit.).

From my experience in the south with guys in pickup trucks displaying the confederate flag, they're more likely to get in a fight defending a black guy from a racist. I know, I saw it. I was assigned a racist roommate and I'm glad he got his butt whooped (he was a large hockey player, so I couldn't do it). Eventually the police dragged him out of our apartment so my other roommate and I could move out. Oh yeah, and he grew up in New York, but came to Alabama to go to college.

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PostPosted: Tue 07-26-2005 12:31PM 
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To quote America: The Book:

"...[Strom] Thurmond's racist rhetoric so appalled the state of South Carolina it re-elected him to the Senate seven times."


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PostPosted: Tue 07-26-2005 12:59PM 
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I see it has a symbol for all the options. Some people use it as a historical aspect, some as a gov. hate thing, and some as racist. Many cases all three at once. Mostly i see it as a racist thing. WHY???? Because some of the people that display it are the most racist fuckers you ever seen and don't even know what the cival war was or who won. Go to some of the backwood areas of missouri and talk to the people. You will find out why they display the flag. Im not going to repeat what i was told.

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PostPosted: Tue 07-26-2005 3:48PM 
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On a superficial level, the flag represents slavery, this is obvious to all.

As was stated, on a deeper level, the confederate flag represents a vast resistence to federal power. It represents state's rights and people willing to fight against a government they saw as overstepping it's bounds.

On a less-romanticized level, it represents the wealthy elite of an area throwing all their countrymen into war just in the hopes that they will save their stranglehold on a particular sector of the economy by doing so.

None of that matters, though. I agree with gil-galad; it doesn't matter what it means to me. Fly it for whatever purpose you want. Put it on a flag pole, a bumpersticker, get a tatoo, whatever. It's not like we should be giving everyone a questionairre to determine whether they're using the stars-and-bars for the right reasons, and taking it away from them if they're not.

If a state has an image of the confederate flag on their state flag, it doesn't have to be a controvery. Have an election, if the people of the state want it, keep it.

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PostPosted: Wed 07-27-2005 10:34AM 
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I know lots of people who display the flag, not because they are racists rednecks, but because they had family who fought in the civil war. Some people look at the flag as a little bit of family history to them. Let them have their flag, as Americans they are entitled to their own opinions.

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PostPosted: Wed 07-27-2005 3:33PM 
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Captain_Cadaver wrote:
I know lots of people who display the flag, not because they are racists rednecks, but because they had family who fought in the civil war. Some people look at the flag as a little bit of family history to them. Let them have their flag, as Americans they are entitled to their own opinions.


I don't care what you say, that is not the primary reason people fly the flag. I've lived in Illinois/Missouri for 23 years and trust me, the people in those states did not fly it because they had relatives in the war. In addition, now that I'm living in Florida or "the south" and am a "yankee", I can say that I've heard the N word used way more frequently down here than even in the rural parts of Illinois. And its not just the hicky backwoods folk either, I know several well to do businessmen who have made dispariging remarks against african-americans as a whole. Those who say latent rascism in the south is less prevalent than in the north are dreaming.

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PostPosted: Wed 07-27-2005 6:25PM 
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-|F.I.B.|-LowMan wrote:
Those who say latent rascism in the south is less prevalent than in the north are dreaming.


Who EVER said that? That makes absolutely no sense.

"Rural Illinois." A free state? Come on.

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PostPosted: Wed 07-27-2005 7:18PM 
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the naked prophet wrote:
There is little racism that I've seen in the south (but I only spent two summers there) but a lot in the north (I've been to two of the formerly all-white cities in the north - there's still enough racism to make one vomit.).

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PostPosted: Wed 07-27-2005 8:01PM 
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Sutherlands wrote:
the naked prophet wrote:
There is little racism that I've seen in the south (but I only spent two summers there) but a lot in the north (I've been to two of the formerly all-white cities in the north - there's still enough racism to make one vomit.).


Thank you sir

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