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 Post subject: Supreme Court Justices == Chicken Shits
PostPosted: Mon 06-14-2004 11:02AM 
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http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/06/14/scotu ... index.html

So they ruled that Newdow doesn't have the right to sue the school district on behalf of his daughter because he's not the custodial parent, ergo, it's now an ex-lawsuit.

How anti-climatic. Way to take the easy way out, guys. :roll:

Regardless of how you feel about the issue (I personally feel that we should revert to pre-1954 pledge), the court ruling does nothing except pave the way for a custodial parent to fight his or her way through the legal system. They have decided nothing on the merits of this case.

On another note, it's disturbing to suggest that non-custodial parents have little or no say in their child(ren)'s life/lives.


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PostPosted: Mon 06-14-2004 1:58PM 
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How this is so detrimental to someone to the point of taking it to the supreme court...I don't think I can understand.

I'm very far away from being a devout christian, I just don't see how it can harm anyone.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon 06-14-2004 3:39PM 


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Fark_Maniac wrote:
How this is so detrimental to someone to the point of taking it to the supreme court...I don't think I can understand.

I'm very far away from being a devout christian, I just don't see how it can harm anyone.


Because we're not a nation under god, we're a nation under man. We govern ourselves, and have many different faiths (other than the protestant God referred to in the amended 1954 Pledge).

I believe in the idea of the US being a melting pot, absorbing and moderating different points of view, except when it comes to topics such as religion, which shouldn't be messed with. Making "under God" part of the pledge means that other faiths that don't believe in that god are bound to pledging under something they don't necessarily believe in.


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PostPosted: Mon 06-14-2004 3:52PM 
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The 1st amendment was not made to protect our government from the morality of religions, it was made to protect religions from tyranny of the government.


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 Post subject: Praise Allah or whoever you're god is.
PostPosted: Mon 06-14-2004 4:17PM 
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Along with freedom of the religion and the constitution also protects freedom from religion. Considering 15-20% of Americans don’t believe in a God or mystical superstition I think it’s far to assume that a great deal of Americans don’t want to live under in country controlled by religion. Separation of church and state is essential to what makes this country so great.

"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith.... We need believing people."
--Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933

The quote might be a little over the top but it makes a point.


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PostPosted: Mon 06-14-2004 10:51PM 
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I have a simple question. Is it really hurting anybody to leave it there? I mean, is anyone so grossly offended that its actually injuring them to leave it there? Please don't answer my question with another question.


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PostPosted: Mon 06-14-2004 10:59PM 
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Stumbles wrote:
I have a simple question. Is it really hurting anybody to leave it there? I mean, is anyone so grossly offended that its actually injuring them to leave it there? Please don't answer my question with another question.


Yes, it's the same as telling me to perjure myself in court or wear a burka out in public. Having “Under God” in the pledge serves no secular purpose and would fail and be found unconstitutional under the lemon law.


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PostPosted: Tue 06-15-2004 3:29AM 
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The guy's been through med and law schools, and he claims to be an ordained minister.

Somehow, an ordained minister wanting to take "under God" out of the Pledge of Allegiance seems kinda odd.

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PostPosted: Tue 06-15-2004 8:26AM 
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Skyhoper wrote:
Stumbles wrote:
I have a simple question. Is it really hurting anybody to leave it there? I mean, is anyone so grossly offended that its actually injuring them to leave it there? Please don't answer my question with another question.


Yes, it's the same as telling me to perjure myself in court or wear a burka out in public. Having “Under God” in the pledge serves no secular purpose and would fail and be found unconstitutional under the lemon law.


Well, then you better be bitching about everything that our government does that deals with religion. How much of it do you know about?


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PostPosted: Tue 06-15-2004 10:38AM 
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Quote:
Well, then you better be bitching about everything that our government does that deals with religion. How much of it do you know about?


I'm not the one getting all huffy. John “I believe calico cats are the devil” Ashcroft and George W. “God wanted me to be president” Bush are the worried ones.


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PostPosted: Tue 06-15-2004 11:34AM 
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Quote:
I think it’s far to assume that a great deal of Americans don’t want to live under in country controlled by religion.


I don't see how people saying the phrase "under God" in the pledge, which by the way you don't even have to recite in any public school situation (stay seated and listen.. or hell, plug your ears if it's that offensive to you), is controlling our country.


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PostPosted: Tue 06-15-2004 11:54AM 
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Skyhoper wrote:
Quote:
Well, then you better be bitching about everything that our government does that deals with religion. How much of it do you know about?


I'm not the one getting all huffy. John “I believe calico cats are the devil” Ashcroft and George W. “God wanted me to be president” Bush are the worried ones.


Name calling sounds like you are getting all huffy to me.

Since "under God" in the pledge is a violation of church and state in some peoples' eyes, let me list a few other things that must be changed or removed:

The inscriptions on the Lincoln Memorial
The inscriptions on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier
The grave markers at the Normandy American Cemetary and Memorial
The Washington National Cathedral
US state funerals
US Military Medals (Navy Cross, Army Distinguished Service Cross, Air Force Distinguished Flying Cross)
Hell, even my own Grandfathers grave
I could list a dozen more.

All of these are operated or funded by the federal government. Where do you draw the line? Do you draw a line? Why not make it a crime for any politician to practice any sort of faith? That way religion and our government don't mix at all.


Last edited by Stumbles on Tue 06-15-2004 12:10PM, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue 06-15-2004 11:57AM 
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I don't see how entwining religion and patriotism is anything but a bad idea.


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PostPosted: Tue 06-15-2004 12:36PM 
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Captain
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Quote:
I don't see how people saying the phrase "under God" in the pledge, which by the way you don't even have to recite in any public school situation (stay seated and listen.. or hell, plug your ears if it's that offensive to you), is controlling our country.


Well then if that’s your argument, just close your ears during class when they sound off 5 calls to prayer during the day and tell you praise Allah.


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PostPosted: Tue 06-15-2004 12:51PM 
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.
Quote:
Since "under God" in the pledge is a violation of church and state in some peoples' eyes, let me list a few other things that must be changed or removed:

The inscriptions on the Lincoln Memorial
The inscriptions on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier
The grave markers at the Normandy American Cemetary and Memorial
The Washington National Cathedral
US state funerals
US Military Medals (Navy Cross, Army Distinguished Service Cross, Air Force Distinguished Flying Cross)
Hell, even my own Grandfathers grave
I could list a dozen more.


Imagine if the government came in, went to your grandfather’s grave (god rest his soul) and defaced/engraved Praise Allah or Pink Unicorns across it. I mean he was resting there decomposing, minding his own business when all of sudden a new faction did this. Of course this completely fine with you as because you understand that we do not have a separation of church and state and the rights of an individual mean nothing because it’s a public graveyard.

That may be a little over the top but I don’t see much difference in defacing your grandfather’s grave or the pledge of the allegiance.

Quote:
Where do you draw the line? Do you draw a line?

I don’t have to the line. It’s already been drawn since 1776.

http://www.jmu.edu/madison/gpos225-madison2/bill_of_rights_text.htm
They even got a picture up there for ya.


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