So the battle of the veeps has begun, and it is a mess. Despite laying out the rules themselves, they keep on breaking them. Personal attacks are a must.

Edwards: Cheney is in Haliburton's pocket.

Cheney: you've missed how many votes? Who are you? I'm the president of the senate and tonight is the first time I've seen you in person. Are you sure you're a senator?

Edwards: you and bush have totally distorted the facts, things are way worse than you let on.

Cheney: No, you have distorted the facts, things are not nearly as terrible as you make them out to be.

Edwards: Many manufacturing jobs have been lost. This is all their fault.
(note to you, they're gonna keep leaving and they AREN'T coming back. Believe me, I know I worked as a manufacturing engineer this summer.)

Cheney: kinda meanders around it and talks about how the situation now isn't any worse than it was when clinton was in office. (i'm not sure that no progress is something to tout though)

Edwards: We are going to reduce the deficit by increasing taxes on the wealthy, give more tax cuts to the middle class, and get rid of bureaucratic spending (you're full of shit, much better politicians than you have tried this for years and never been able to make so much as a dent in reducing this. As Ronald Reagan said, "the first rule of bureaucracy is to protect the bureaucracy." And even he was nearly totaly unable to reduce wasteful spending. In more recent times Sen. John McCain was largely unable to garner the support to stop porkbarrel spending simply because many of our representatives need it to sway their constituants to keep them in office. If you want to see the waste go tohttp://www.cagw.org

The rest of it is pretty much a re-run of the Pres debate last week.

John Edwards sounded just like a lawyer commercial..... "We will work for you....... bigger gov't is better" ..... blah blah blah.......overall the whole night was a waste..... just recycled garbage that was said in the presidental debate.......

Althought in the begginning it looked like Cheney was about to pick his nose. He kept messing with it when Edwards was talking. Was mildly entertaining.

I think it was close to a draw on who won. Although i only watched the last 45 minutes or so. Unlike Bush, Cheney is highly intelligent and an expert debater. Edwards looked alot better, mainly because of his comparative youth. Cheney showed alot of strength however. The differences in the closing statements were amazing. Edward's synopsis on the way america is chaging, and Cheney's assessment on Bush's (or his?) leadership skills on the war on terror.

Yeah, I'd have to agree. I'm pretty biased so it may be a lot different for all the undecideds they were targeting but trying to be as impartial as I can I couldn't really tell who won.

I keep forgetting to log in. I reread my last post and it doesn't make too much sense with me calling myself biased and trying to be impartial in the ame sentence but I don't really care.
I did remember the one thing that really did strike me though; Cheney said that Iraq had ties to Al-Queda. I thought that everyone had finally admitted that that was wrong.

I know both of them completely side stepped what the other was talking about, but the worst case I thought was when Cheney attacked Edwards' attendance record, and Edwards didn't even TRY to justify it, and instead started attacking the Bush-Cheney record. When someone attacks you, you reply with a precise answer, that is not at all what Edwards did. He could've atleast said something like, I was doing other work/out on related business/visiting my state contituents or something. I thought only Bush and Cheney were capable of that kind of blatant side stepping.

EDIT: Grammatically correct post anyone?

And how long after 9/11 was Cheney in "an undisclosed location"? I doubt that location was the Senate floor.

I don't know, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't 5 1/2 years.

How about Edwards "politely" bringing up Cheney's lesbian daughter? Cheney "thanked" Edwards for bringing up the family which was rediculously sarcastic and Edwards I don't think even noticed.

I agree in general, but one thing you might not have caught is that the current administration has failed to make the government smaller in the last four years. Assha--Ashcroft et. al. has bloated the government to an unbelievable size. It's a fucking shame too.