http://www.cagw.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=8224&JServSessionIdr005=w88yjkil21.app25a

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Problem is people conservatives want a low-tax low-service government. Liberals want a high-tax high-service government. The voters think they should compromise with a low-tax high-service government. Republics can get the tax cuts passed but people freak out if anyone says anything about cutting funding to grossly inefficient and wasteful programs like Welfare, Social Security, or Medicare.

The problem with welfare is the amount of unqualified people that are on it, wasting taxpayers' money.

We spend almost as much, if not more, paying intrest on the national debt, and more on national defense than on welfare.

If we didn't have (or had less) welfare then we could pay down the national debt. I would rather pay for amered services to protect me than pay for some poor persons satilite TV.

Or...we could pay down the national debt, and use the money we'd be saving on interest to pay for college for everyone, welfare, etc etc... Interest on seven trillian dollars has gotta be a lot of cash...

Just a thought =)

Or everyone could get a job and contribute to society and use there own money to pay for college and health insurance instead of relying on the government to take care of them through some grossly inefficient system that takes money from people who work hard to get it. Then we could take that extra money that we aren’t paying the government to do whatever we want to with our own money. Almost like we live in a free society where the government doesn’t tell you how to spend you money.

The United States has a low tax base compared to other industrilized nations. If you aren't lucky enough to be born into opprotunity it is very hard to pay for college, or health insurance.
As far as Welfare goes, you can only recieve it for 2 years at a time and a maximum of 5 years in your life. Due to welfare reform passed by Clinton. There are alot of people on it that don't deserve the money, however there are also alot of people on Welfare who truly are down on their luck and are trying to get back on their feet.

As far as paying for college goes, if you were to cut the state funding of UMR the price of tuition would almost double. Guess where the extra money would come from...your pocket! And i suppose if you wanted to end all gov't funding, like federal loans and pell grants, any student wanting to go here and not being elligble for lots of scholarships would be looking at having to come up with $20k in cold hard cash. Unless you come from a rich family that would be nearly impossible to come up with, especially with the 4 year total nearing $80k in expenses. But, i suppose if you wanted to make higher education a privilge of the rich and out of reach for the poor and middle class, it would be a good idea.

Also, we live in a country where wealth is in excess....i don't mind giving up some of my money to help people down on their luck (if they truly are down on their luck...).

Oh yes, and therin lies the crux of the matter. I've worked at a job where I've had first hand viewing of the abuses of the govt programs. For a few summers I worked at a collection agency and saw what many "down on there luck" people did with the money that was supposed to help them along. Granted, there were probably as many that needed the mony and used it properly, but the people that were on unemployment, wellfare, etc lived better than I do now as a college student. Granted again that this would eventually end, due to the fact that the majority of what they purchased was all done with rent to own, but the fact remains, they WASTED both YOUR and MY hardworked for dollars. Here's the typically cycle, buy a bunch of electronics shit they don't need instead of looking for dress clothes and school, to improve themselves. Then once something major comes up, "oops, bankruptcy" and more and more frequently it's becoming chapter 7. In other words, keep all of your ill-gotten crap and start fresh with no debt. You're exactly right, I have no problem with helping those who have truly came upon hard times, but I'm sick of the abuses. There are many among these people who are perfectly content with the situation they're in and will do NOTHING to get themselves out of it. That is, unless we force them to by taking away the dole.

That's right. There's 168 hours in a week; most people don't work half of them. That's why we create so many (~$9/hr) jobs; so people can have 2 or 3.

I'm not saying people shouldn't work, just that if we didn't spend so much money on national defense and the national debt (ie, we paid it off), we could send everyone to college (and it's been shown that a college education adds ~$1 million to a persons earnings over the course of their life). Not only that, but a college education will mean smarter citizens, citizens that can make informed decisions.

I think most people that work hard to get money (I work two jobs) don't mind giving a chunk of it back if it's for the greater good, then again that could just be the progressive in me talking.

~ Krientle

Darn right. I just got off a six month stint working 85 hours a week. It's doable.

There is no point arguing these every detail of every social program as I don’t know the details of them all. In my post above about I said welfare when I should have been talking about social programs in general.

I think we need a large national defense program. It protects our freedom. Who else is going to fight off those who attach it? The U.N.?

I think the U.S. has too many social programs, and people want to add more. Specifically Social Security is horribly ineffective, and make people less likely to save for their future. If you want to retire, then save some of your money. If your parents are old, can’t work, and have no money then take care of them.

The truth of the matter is the poorest Americans are better off the at least 50% of the people in this world. 12.5% of Americans are said to live in “poverty.” 46% of these people own their own homes, 76% have air conditioning, 97% have a color television, and only 6% live in homes that are “over-crowed.” Social program serve as a deterrent for poorer people to work and save for their own future.

Finally, I never said I didn’t support the state government paying for secondary education. I think that is a great investment in the future. I think that federal government grants to people who couldn’t otherwise afford college are essential to ensuring a strong future for this country. However, I would like to see more loan and fewer grants. As far as sending everyone to college, I don’t think that is necessary. Not every job requires a college education. I don’t really think 12 years of a general education is the best plan for everyone. Many people should start getting more specialized education for the career earlier than after graduation.

Yeah, college is NOT the only way to be making 40k a year. Heck, tech school is a great option. It is maybe a couple thousand a year, if that. You take it while in high school, and when you graduate you'll be making 30-40k a year. You just have to have the inclination to DO something with your life instead of being a bum.

As far as our national debt, I doubt we'll ever see it get smaller. Liberals want to tax more, but not to pay off the national debt, to spend it on social programs. Conservatives want to take any excesses and give it back to the people who caused the excesses, instead of paying off the debt. Personally, if I were in charge of things I'd cut a LOT of social programs back and get rid of the inneffective ones. Then I'd take the surplus money from that and use it to help pay off the debt. In 20 years it should be possible to pay off our debt assuming we keep up a given amount to it, then using what we'd be paying off in interest also to pay off the debt. Then in 20 years our nation would have so much money we could pay for secondary education, healtcare, all sorts of stuff. Instead, Bush's advisors say "oh no, deflation! We have GOT to do something!" And the only way the government knows how to stop deflation is to go into debt, so they spent more money that they don't really have and they beat the deflation a few years ago.

shit, you can make an extremely comfortable living doing construction....

as much as i don't like what they've become, unions have made it easy to make a decent living.....

and hard-work is something that most people are too big of bitches to even experience....... i used to work construction (roofing, concrete, housing) and i made more money in 3 months than most do working a year at some random job......

and there are some perks to working construction.......
1- you're outside, too many people don't go outside enough and they don't have even a slightest hint of a tan, so they r all pale as all hell......

2- money, nuff said

3- you give yourself strength, and u build confidence in yourself...



k, enough of my rant